China Is Not Our Enemy with Jodie Evans

China Is Not Our Enemy with Jodie Evans

answered by massachusetts peace action and the community church of boston uh massachusetts peace action is a local anti-war group and a peace group here in massachusetts and a community church of boston is a really great church in boston uh focused on social justice and all types of activism uh we’ll be sure brian will share their link in the chat so people can check them out uh we’re really excited tonight to be joined by jody evans who is the co-founder of code pink we will be talking about how china is not our enemy i’m really looking forward to this discussion it’s going to be moderated by zoe stevenson and drew baldwin zoe is a third year undergraduate student at northeastern university and a new intern here at massachusetts peace action she’s part of the peace and climate and racial justice decolonization working groups here at mass peace action and is uh working to learn more about u.s and china relations drew is a rising senior at northeastern university studying international affairs and east asian studies uh for the last several months drew has served as an intern at mass peace action um and uh she’s been a really uh active and important member of the no new cold war working group of mapa so without further ado i’m going to pass the floor to our moderators to begin tonight’s discussion thank you everyone so much for joining us and uh yes zoe and drew take it away all right so we wanted to start off by introducing our wonderful guest jody evans jody evans is the co-founder of code pink a woman-led grassroots organization working to end u.s wars and militarism support peace and human rights initiatives and redirect their tax dollars into life affirming programs and i know jody wants to introduce yourself a little bit so i can pass the floor to you thanks zoe um so it’s really great to see everybody and have so many people care about this campaign and this issue um so i’m here um representing food pink and i think what’s first most important to say is code pink is a community of amazing peace activists so um just one voice and i really want to acknowledge that the team is on here r.j and madison um who run the campaign and also a lot of the members of our the volunteers that really support the work um and so that for me is like the most important thing about being a peace activist is that we work in coalition and together in a community and as teams um so just a little bit about me that you know the arc of my work um i started in the late 60s an anti-war activist during the vietnam war and also lived in las vegas which is where the test site was and my first arrest was in 1969 outside the test site and then i was a made in 1970 making a dollar 87 an hour and we were organized to march for with living wage and we won jane fonda came and marched with us so i also worked to 18 year olds to get the right to vote and so in the beginning i i got to see a lot of victories and they have fueled me for the rest of my life as uh in 1970 it was to take on the man to take on the violence of the patriarchy uh which is um one thing that kind of led me to be outside the white house when with medea the day we started pink was that i was working in watts um with gang members um in a community in los angeles where 20 000 people had died in 20 years and naively i said oh let’s just show all the gang members that all men are the same and we pulled in a governor and a billionaire and you know lots of men to went around the circle and when we did i realized that every single one of the gang members dads had been in vietnam and that that you know that had come home to our community and it was it had been devastating and so um i know also how these wars come home and the prices are paid by generations of people um onward and so that’s what sent me screaming uh to washington in september of um about two to say uh no war on a rock so that’s just a little more about me instead of like the details of what i’ve done in my life so thank you zoe for the introduction thank you thank you jody for uh joining us and thank you everyone for coming and thank you for the introduction um and then just the final introduction i was just going to talk a little bit about the structure of this webinar what’s going to happen in the next hour and i just want to acknowledge that although this webinar is a little bit about china it’s also about u.s china relations and so in order to acknowledge china in this world system we are acknowledging it from the lens of our you know us relation to china and so a lot of the issues we’re talking about are kind of a broader range of things ranging from climate change to the potential threat of war between the us and china um to like you know opportunities for diplomacy and um i also just wanted to address very quickly that if and when we do bring up topics about anti-asian discrimination and racism um this it’s lovely and i’m really happy this is a panel of women but it is a panel of white women so we cannot speak from our own personal experiences and all we can do is bring these issues to the forefront and bring these issues to light and talk about how the history and the politics surrounding them ignite this dangerous rhetoric and what we can do to help and what everyone else in the audience can do to help um so before we dive into these subjects the first thing we’re going to be talking about is just a little bit more about code pink and exactly what the china is not our enemy campaign is and then a little bit more about diplomacy potentially between the us and china climate change opportunities for allyship and we also want to touch a little bit about the kind of competing narratives and media surrounding the discrimination on the uyghur muslims in the xinjiang region and we want to recognize that that is also a very sensitive subject and then finally we do want to talk a little bit about the intersection of feminism piece in the anti-war movement so thank you again everyone for joining thank you again to the community church of boston for co-sponsoring this thank you to jody and everyone else in code pink that has worked with us and i’m excited to get started and hopefully we have a little bit of time for a q a at the end of this as well so thank you for listening and without further ado i will get started with the very first question um and so as amar said i am part of the no new cold war working group here at mapa and within this group we do a lot of issues or we do a lot of work that address kind of the dangerous anti-china rhetoric and the possibility of war between the us and china and similarly i know code pink has a campaign called china is not our enemy campaign i was hoping you could first tell us a little bit more about what exactly that campaign is and secondly if you could expand a little bit on why you chose the phrasing of china is not our enemy rather than no new cold war thank you sure thank you drew and just you know huge gratitude to mass peace action for all you do and for joining in this work um let’s see a year and a half ago i started to see all this propaganda come out about china and you know as a peace activist you recognize propaganda because you start to see the same headline and article in every newspaper you read and you see that it was planted and it was just a press release out of the pentagon and um it started to feel very much like the beginning of the push for war in iraq i was like oh my god um this there’s a war brewing on china um and uh you know definitely an aggression on china china hadn’t done anything there was i and and really i i felt the shift because i had been going to china and posting stories about it on my facebook and people were loving it i wasn’t getting uh angry messages i was like wow that’s cool thanks for bringing back the story and then all of a sudden the tenseness shifted and so you know i talked to madina i was like there’s you know the next target is china and we’ve got to get ahead of it and we have you know not only ahead of it but the problem the same with iraq is i mean people do know where china is on the map which they didn’t about iraq but um they don’t know a lot about it and it’s a lot of lies and a lot of contortion and and and really um it’s quite violent the way um most people in the united states look at china it it’s not relational for sure and um so it was the point you know as a as an activist and a campaigner it’s how do you have a message that needs to deliver what you’re trying to do and this is an aggression on china so it was china is not our enemy felt like a place to start from um and that in the beginning it was uh how do i start to you know what is china how do you learn about it uh you know by creating china as an enemy you create violence against asians in the united states it felt like the right entry point into a campaign um we are part of the no cold war coalition and we have this conversation a lot about that name my concern about that was that um all the us aggressions on asia uh the us is lost and um there are people in the united states that see the cold war as something we won and i um i feel that what is happening between china and the united states is is an existential threat to the future of the planet and um it’s not about winning and losing it’s it’s really like how do you this is a moment where the the work of our life’s times as anti-war activists is that war is not never the answer this is here and so i didn’t want to include the war in the you know no cold war i mean this is um how do you get to the sinewys of um what is happening here and and yes um they’re nuclear um opponents but you know china is not russia and it’s all very different than that cold war it’s yes it’s an aggression by the united states but most people in the united states don’t know that they think it was an aggression on the united states by russia you know so it just felt like getting it’s already complicated to start unpacking it felt like it was easier to unpack around a way that to interrupt you know what do we do as as anti-war activists is we try to be friction on the train that’s running out of the station or we try to you know disrupt their story and that felt like also the best disruption uh to their story was the china is not our enemy thank you thank you yeah i don’t think i’ve ever you know exactly thought about it in that way in the sense that also i suppose if you have the terminology of no new cold war um you enter this issue of people just completely rejecting the fact that there is no cold war where if you have a china is not our enemy there’s less of a rejection for china is clearly our enemy whether or not it’s in a cold war hot war um you know world or mindset um and then just just a quick follow-up um i mean do you do you think as an activist and what you’ve seen in terms of the relationship between what you’ve seen in the media from the iraq war and what you’ve seen during this time with our you know rhetoric towards china do you think that there is a real possibility of some sort of conflict between the u.s and china or do you think that if there is a possibility it’s quite far off um and if you have an opinion on that um i certainly think there’s a possibility especially when you hear the insane rhetoric coming out of the people in washington uh you you can see how unstable they are and what they’re saying and the hubris that they’re coming from is quite frightening um so i also think that china has been humiliated enough and so they’re not gonna back down and those two that combination is scary um i think when you prepare for something uh more than likely it’s going to happen not preparing for it would make it so it couldn’t happen and i’m like you know so let’s not prepare for it if it’s not going to happen and um that’s you just you you know you have missiles set up to go somewhere we’ve been living on a lot of luck and we know that as as you know anti-nuke activists uh how long does that look uh hold out how intense are these new weapons um but you know all that we you know it could think you know from the very beginning war is not green has been part of our messaging and the preparing for war is a violence to the planet it’s a violence to people it already is a war so even this preparation for war needs to be stopped and it needs to be stopped for all the same reasons but if you start to escalate escalations go places um and you don’t get to stop the chaos you create and unfortunately one of the tools that the pentagon uses and they they’re quite proud of it and they they’ve told me to my face in iraq is they just want to create chaos well you know we see what happens when they create chaos tons and tons and tons of people die and it doesn’t seem to bother them um but they’re not you know they’re they’re um they don’t take seriously um who china is or how they think in the same way they didn’t take seriously who afghanistan is and how afghans speak think or who iraqi are and how they think um you know or any of the places where we invade and extract and oppress and so that same pattern is um we’re not up against a country of you know i don’t know 36 million uh or 20 million we’re up against a country of a billion five with a level of you know i used to say before the iraq war you know the iraq was the most educated country in the world per capita well we have a another country where um it’s super educated and that education hasn’t been dumbed down over the last 30 years or what i call the essential things of life like education and food have been cared for where infrastructure education food have not been central to the united states yeah thank you thank you for that and i think that this actually segues uh pretty appropriately into zoe’s little section which is less about exactly the threat of war between the us and china and kind of a more optimistic outlook of what can we do to cooperate with china so thank you jody and zoe take it away yeah you talked a little bit about the preparation for war as violence on the planet and i do want to build on that um in preparing for this webinar i watched a lot of your past interviews where you talked about china and as someone that’s primarily concerned about climate what really stuck out to me is your assertion that in order to combat climate change we need to work with china and we agree with you here at mapa and i just wanted to hear a little bit more about what you thought that might look like um how you envision us working with china on climate change thanks zoe um so yeah um [Music] you know the fights in the white house right now about china are with kerry uh who is um you know taken on the climate change problem um my old boss jerry brown uh who also um is concerned about the planet has created a entire school at berkeley i think it’s called the u.s china climate school he’s done it with the number one chinese that repre the number one that represented china at cop in paris and they’ve been working together um he’s been working with bill perry i mean like um i don’t all i know is that the only way we’re gonna address any of the problems that we have right now is through cooperation we live i mean war right now it just it’s it’s just my brain like fries at how stupid it is antiquated it is um barbaric in the sense of just the the level of violence and and and destruction that it creates that we as conscious people would even think that war is the answer it just baffles me and so you know right now with the the problems that we have globally the only thing anyone should be doing and that has any level of power right now is working on global cooperation on all these issues climate change is happening look at right now with these floods in europe and china and the and the fires in the us um it’s not like it’s not like you have to imagine yourself somewhere we are in the middle of climate change we are also in the middle of a war on china it’s not like in the future it’s happening already and um the the tools of war uh you know as media wrote uh you know her book on drones it was like we we keep looking at could pink as the tools of war continue to shift so that you can’t call it a war right um we saw this uh with the war in iraq um don’t let anybody see the body bags don’t um have uh you know recruit soldiers instead of draft soldiers all the ways that got in the way of the war in vietnam oh we can’t do that anymore we have to do this differently oh now we’re not going to use soldiers we’re going to use drones oh now we’re going to use warfare and law fair and we’re going to weaponize human rights um so um there’s these wars are going on right now at a time when our attention needs to be paid to how do we stop this escalation of climate change and that’s that’s the first thing the second thing is to to do this preparation for war we know that it is it war is the greatest contributor to climate change and thinks abby martin is going to make a movie about this she’s working on it right now because nobody talks about the effects of war on the climate and how bad it is and she’s worked on some numbers that show even if we get off fossil fuels if we’re still raging we’re still moving towards a horrendous uh climate catastrophe and people need to understand that more and more but um it really needs to be core to this mess i mean it was core to the beginning of the messaging of china is not our enemy china is not our enemy and we need to be cooperating on climate change and we need to be cooperating on poverty and and the you know the people the needs of the people yeah um on the topic of cooperation you’ve sort of touched on this a little bit but maybe you can go into a little bit more detail um outside of climate change what other opportunities do you see for cooperation or diplomacy between the us and china well um 600 years ago european countries jumped in their boats and colonized the world and um china burned their boats and built the silk road and trade is an important way to be in relationship and learn from each other and be in cooperation and actually probably if we cooperated more in the market and i’m i’m not calling the market capitalism and calling the market the place where trade happens where you know we serve the needs of the people through the relationship of trade i i think that if we started to cooperate more in there we would be destroying the planet less we would be serving the people more so that’s another place of cooperation also on poverty uh china figured out a way to take all of its people out of poverty now i mean just to put that in some context in um 1825 china was 25 of the global gdp and then europe and um england and everybody you know started attacking china and in 1970 it was one of the 10 poorest countries on the planet um and so now it’s in competition with the united states as as as an economic competitor so you know um this is a lot to take a billion and a half people out of poverty like how did that happen that we don’t have a curiosity around that especially many of us live in cities where we have people living in tents outside of our front door and um how did that happen now some of the processes might not be what some people like but at least knowing it could happen and quit saying it can’t happen that’s a step forward um you know uh on i think we don’t understand uh where technology is i think that needs cooperation alienation because technology if you talk to people inside of it they say they don’t even know what they’re creating like it’s at a level beyond maybe human understanding should we be cooperating in this area um shouldn’t we be learning from each other shouldn’t we be sharing um it feels like we’re playing with a lot of very dangerous things and and cooperation is necessary um so yes where we are in this time in history it needs to be all about cooperation take it away drew thank you thank you for that um i i actually think that i i might open with this question instead of i was i think the next section that we would like to talk about is a little bit about um the mistreatment of the weaker muslims in the xinjiang autonomous region but i think just as as an opener um i i’m wondering exactly how you would look at something like u.s intervention abroad you know within this this idea of at what point is there a threshold that we reach where we do intervene on human rights and kind of the relationship between u.s intervention and maybe u.s cooperation with other countries in kind of a relational way and if you think that there is any justification sometimes for a country like the us to go in and intervene when there are certain abuses or exactly how we define those and who defines those well i think it starts with what you just said who defines those and um and so i think that human rights right now on the planet is very complicated and you know who decides what the world should be like i don’t think is the united states i’m a feminist um i you know my my life is dedicated to ending the patriarchy and so to be living inside of the empire first of all i you know i have kids it makes you stupid to live in an empire for starters because you’re it you know dehumanizes you in ways uh that are frightening and um empires have come and gone i’m very excited for the us prior to to lose its metals because it’s not good for anyone it’s not good for anyone on the globe and it’s certainly not good for the people who live in the united states of america which you know it’s full of lots of amazing wonderful people the structure itself is quite violent and oppressive and destructive um so you know your question of should the i don’t think the united states should intervene anywhere and too often we read you know in history that the the human rights violations have been constructed by u.s intervention um so i don’t i don’t trust um a lot and i’ve you know grown up and lived through these years of a lot of uh lies out of the united states out of the state department of the cia um a lot of murders and contortions so um you know this campaign is uh constructed knowing that knowing that the tool that they’ve already one of the tools of word they’ve already laid out is the weaponizing of of human rights because they know they have the whole country except for the left and progressives and so um you know part of our campaign is that we’re not going to go into the he said she said of any of these stories our campaign goal is that china is not our enemy and that if you care about human rights war is the worst thing that could happen not only war but let’s just start with sanctions let’s you know what’s what human rights have been improved in iran because of our sanctions or anywhere else in the world where we’ve imposed sanctions um human rights are the first to go well first the first thing and more to go is the truth and then it’s human rights so my answer to anyone that wants to talk about human rights is that if you care about human rights then you need to be on my side ending war and creating cooperation where you know we can start to have the conversation because this these things have to happen in conversations so we understand values and we can you know like and you know deciding that the united states of america is all the right values and they get imposed on the world is not right um so i worked on human rights in the united states i mean we have more people in jail in the united states we have people in solitary confinement we kill people we have you know like we just did a you know big um ad in the new york times on cuba and a lot of the signers got attacked and you know it’s like are you gonna listen to the 11 million cubans that live in cuba that we’re starving or 600 that have decided they don’t like cuba anymore you know it’s it’s it’s who’s you know who tells the story what’s the truth uh as a feminist and as a woman um i i you know i listen to the people closest on the ground in the largest mass of them thank you um thank you for that i think that it’s pretty important even even as i was growing up um i you know was taught in u.s history classes you know a very specific view of what kind of world history is from a very americanized western democracy way and i think that a lot of people my age have kind of honestly only just recently started to think about things differently and i think that there’s a lot of people in the younger generation that are becoming more and more anti-us intervention but i do think that there is also a large number of students myself included that still have trouble sometimes exactly just not trusting everything that comes out of the media and the government because for most of our lives that’s almost exactly what we were taught to think and believe and so i’m just wondering exactly how or if you have any advice on how to navigate that um and navigate competing narratives within kind of u.s media us government and how to decipher exactly what the truth might be and if that even matters well i guess if you can’t decipher it it is is that the truth that matters you know if you can’t you know it’s kind of in our work if you can’t um if you don’t have a hand on the lever of change then you know what are you doing there you know it’s it’s it’s you’re fretting it’s it’s i call it the folly of fretting because we fret about a lot of things that we don’t have our hand on the lever of change about and i just direct people back to what do you have your hand on the lever of change you all in in massachusetts had your hand on the lever of change to you know pull the pants down of marky last week and say even though that’s over even though you voted that way you lied you misrepresented you used something uh to get elected and you failed um you know that is where you have a lever that is where you can create capacity but these things that are very far away look i live in los angeles i work on the human rights in my own city if somebody asked me you know like i i what do i do to i find a lever that i can help on on palestinian human rights what do i do i join in a campaign that the palestinians started a campaign bds campaign where i can do something in my own community i can go to a a store and protest a product why do we do that because we elevate the the story give people a chance to get angry and then be able to articulate what’s happening out of their kind of idea of what’s happening so that you build a movement so that you can create change there you know there’s there’s steps to change and um i just want to remind us all that here we are uh this week i’m i’m you know been steeped in cuba and and palestine um you know watching the backlash to ben and jerry’s that people who kill palestinians can’t have their ice cream and um and then the backlash to the cuba ad while we’re starving people starving people to death in cuba so if you want to talk about human rights here’s where you have actually lovers you have your own government that you live in that is starving the people of cuba you know and that is funding the violence on the people of palestine and you know for us as we start this campaign towards china like let’s remember that the struggle in palestine is you know 70 years you know 60 years and 60 years of struggle with cuba we have a movement to build we have to look at like what are we doing and we are trying to debunk the stupidity of the american people around china and we are trying to build a movement that has a big tent um so that we can actually affect change so i just say like i mean i i don’t know why you’re there i get you know if you’re if that’s what you know you want to figure out i i would send them to some places to get some information that’s different than the information they have like the ciao collective um uh or uh even there was um there’s a couple of people in china that speak english that have been going there and come back with another narrative but they’re both narratives and i call it the he said she said of things that you don’t have your hands on so we each have our lives and what can we put it to and we we have a lot right there’s a lot in our face so what can i actually put my life to that i where i can affect change and that’s how i answer those questions thank you yeah i i appreciate that and i appreciate you bringing up the parallel between um palestine and israel and maybe u.s china relations because actually as we were preparing for this webinar we kind of made that same parallel where there are these competing narratives and he said she said and people worry about not even having these conversations because they’re worried about what they might say wrong or what they might say wrong in the eyes of someone else and i think that the only way to really understand them is to talk about it more um and i think that brings us to our next question i guess can i just respond to that of course please do yeah so um certainly uh at code pink we say things wrong every day um to some people you know we say a lot of things wrong that people get angry with every day so i don’t think it’s about right and wrong it’s about where are your values and you know you can see in this ben and jerry fight i just look at the people and just like i know where their values are and they’re living out their values i mean you know it’s uh you know it’s kind of like the confusion well why would we want to go to war in china again we’ve lost every war in china but that’s not the point the point is going to war the point is the military industrial complex the point is the the domination the point isn’t like oh that’s just even a like that’s just even a bad idea well that’s nothing to do with like if your value is as what it is in the military industrial complex it’s about like all the money that gets made and all the power you know like all the people that get to feel like they’re powerful and so you have to look at like what is their value and what does that come from you know where where do they put their life’s values um we have a t-shirt at code pink that says uh it’s a glorious denim quote the truth will set you free but first i will piss you off but mostly we have that for ourselves because we can go in congress with a sign and people get really really angry with us medea was outside the white house this weekend with you know cuban americans calling her names and saying crazy stuff um you know so um it’s it’s we’re you know i assume everyone on this calls like we’re living out of a value that um you know imperialism is not a good thing and that war is never the answer and it’s always just you know going down to what is that value because of course there’s not if you’re speaking out of the value you have you’re gonna probably upset a few people it’s okay it’s the it’s the opportunity to teach right now so much learning is happening because of that ad in the new york times on cuba because people were carrying wrong ideas and because of ben and jerry doing something so courageous like not allowing the um people occupying the land of the palestinians to have their ice cream all that that’s happening that argument it’s like the people that are reading inside of it their brains are getting to shift because um when you’re watching the conversation happen is where your brain can shift more not when you’re in the argument because in the argument you tend to stay to your side but it’s the observers i know what took me to outside the white house when bush was calling for a war on a rock was i just wanted to stand outside there so somebody could stand out there and say no because i knew there were many other people in the country that felt like me and there needed to be a no why does you know media and the team in ndc disrupt those congressional hearings because there are people that want to feel sane that are watching that have a different set of values and they want them in the in the to be at least scratching the powers that are moving forward you know stealing from their lives and um destroying countries and people thank you i think zoey might actually have a follow-up for this yeah you talked about speaking from your values and that really resonates with me but i just wanted to ask this also ties into the parallel between the palestine israel situation and what’s going on with china there are these competing narratives that are going on that if you support palestinians you’re anti-semitic or if you support peace with china then you’re a genocide denier or that you don’t care about anti-muslim discrimination so how do you deal with how do you suggest we deal with our values being called into question like that um with these narratives that sort of use the fact that we care about these things anti-semitism and genocide and perhaps what feels like a malicious way um to maybe make us question our own values sure thank you um yes so i’m gonna just go back to what can i affect um i of course care if there’s a genocide um on the uyghurs and i care deeply if that is true and you know what i say is then we need to do all we can to stop a war on china because that will make the situation worse um what’s happening in palestine is happening with my tax dollars it’s happening by votes by senators so i actually have a hand on the lever so those are where my two levers are my lever to help shinjin is on stopping more my level to help the palestinian people is to be an activist for them in the united states which is really the the what has israel’s back in the oppression of the palestinian people so as a u.s citizen my taxes go to oppress the palestinian people if it were not for the united states of america that oppression would not be happening i can actually touch that lever um the way i the best way i can support if there is a human rights abuses in shenzhen is to make sure i do everything i can to stop u.s aggression on china thank you so much and this might be taking things in a little bit of a different direction i know that you’ve said that perhaps whether what’s being shown in the media is true or not is maybe not the most important thing but could you speak a little bit on what is being shown in the media what you’re seeing and also maybe where that’s coming from oh yeah i mean i i’m sure it’s coming from many different places so i’m just gonna let’s start with um i’m gonna just start with the red scare um so you have a a movement of capitalists that go you know back very very long way but let’s just go to after world war ii where you know let’s stop uh an alternative to capitalism from a rising um so that’s the red scare um what falls under that set of values and who’s funded to you know push them forward and and you know make everyone frightened um i’m sure that’s a mass of people so there’s a massive information coming out of them and they’re very frightened um to lose their standing as capitalists um stealing from people and um getting becoming billionaires so i you know there’s a lot of people that are um attached to the capitalist way of life um then there’s um the military industrial complex that has been you know this is new this is you know they’ve been eyes on china for a long time but it it’s been escalating um from uh obama to trump to biden it’s now at a hyper escalation with biden um you know one of the things is you know how many how many things are funded by the military-industrial complex to create misinformation i don’t know but it’s a lot i mean the fact that it’s even in bills the senate votes for like we will create misinformation about this you know the propaganda is actually funded in these bills um so you know i um [Music] we we want we follow the dongshan new just to get some non-propaganda news around china um but we follow the tri-continental because they do really in-depth pieces and any activists can write the tricon and say this is a really stuck issue it needs deep research i mean we you know we live in really thin information and you know to go deep you need people that can actually take it deeper do the research and come back so the tri-continental center for research um they’re they’re funded to serve the movements globally on tough questions that we need to answer and so you know right away they the place where when we started i said could you do um on covid and debunk all these lies and they did a really deep research on covet and if you you know that’s one of the places zoe if like where if you want to take it deeper because that’s one of the places that’s creating the the the xenophobia and all that covered you know lie they did a very very deep uh three-part study um they just recently came out ting’s chalk did a deep study um she’s one of the editors of the dongxing news on um poverty alleviation um they you know one of their partners in turn is also gandhi and jen and done a report back on that i’m i’m staying out of that it’s you know it’s like it’s way over my head all i know is if i if i really want to help um the weakers that i’ve got to put all my energy into ending the aggression on china unfortunately the aggression is already on um the weakers who have jobs that are being taken away from them and and um i hear from my friends in china that young people in china are rising up against what’s happening in the united states because young people in china are losing their jobs because of the boycott on cotton i mean which is kind of ridiculous when in the united states in alabama um prisoners in the united states of america get paid five cents an hour to pick cotton i mean it’s also absurd um so you know all these ways to pick at china uh they continually forget that these are human beings uh just as we forgot with iraq that they’re human beings and we forgot with afghanistan that we’re dealing with human beings so you know trying um one of the things is is uh and rj does this a lot it could pink is to disrupt some of these stories with these are human beings you’re talking about you know these these broad swaths of how you’re going to fix something that you have absolutely no lever on change about um you’re just using it to create more anger and more violence towards asian people one of the things that we do is try to interrupt those stories to show people what they’re doing with those stories that those stories are actually violent um that what you’re spreading is actually a violence already and mostly the violence to asian americans in the united states um so the misinformation is deep uh i think it’s i think it’s i mean i i’m curious for you drew and zoey you know it’s like what is that like to come of age when there’s just you you understand how much propaganda uh you swim in um just you know curious yeah yeah i definitely think that it’s something that we’re all learning to navigate ourselves um because when you grow up pretty much taught something that could be potentially defined as propaganda it’s it’s hard to debunk those things in your own mind and kind of reteach yourself and reaffirm what your own values are and i do i do appreciate what you were talking about the difference between right and wrong and and values and i actually think zoe actually has another follow-up question kind of about um people in the media covering covering the weaker muslims i do this is sort of a follow-up from what you were saying about research and studies and i’m also seeing a little bit about it in the chat um so who is adrian zentz and what is his relevance to all this so i’m not going to go there because i i i um i would send you to other places to read and i think the team will put them in the chat because i really don’t want to spend time on someone that is that horrible i don’t i i value my life and i just don’t want to go there it’s not my i i have great respect and gratitude to those people who are doing this deep research and but it’s not mine to do mine is to you know end aggression on china and i feel like um the disruptors and propagandas you know they like distracting us and i also am not going to be distracted and so it’s not that you know these amazing people that are doing this research i you know kiss their feet but i you know they count on me to be doing my work and so you know my work is to help build a movement that’s really big and really big tented and broad scoped um because if we are gonna stop this aggression we need everyone and we need to understand you know where we can show up and what we can actually do and so that’s where i spend my time in energy sorry i’m not gonna go there but um i’m sure rj and madison can act lincoln there are lots of research that’s been done that can answer your questions yeah it looks like they are definitely on that in the chat um giving resources to everyone so on sort of a different topic you mentioned a little bit about how all of this sort of perpetuates violence against asian people living in america and asian americans and i was wondering if you could expand on that um we all know we all heard the comments that trump made around the kova 19 pandemic and we’ve all sort of seen some of the impacts of that but tying this into sort of the broader picture of what’s going on between the us and china um yeah well it’s it’s a daily microaggressions if you’re asian um because people are really insensitive in how they talk about things and how they talk about china i would say coming out of the obama the trump and the biden administration and the military-industrial complex they don’t deal with these issues as like we’re dealing with human beings and so it becomes china it becomes you know pivot to asia um and in a time where we live in a country where people are really frustrated uh you know but i think we there’s like 65 of a populist movement you know both left and right and that’s a lot of uh not happiness with the structure of your country that you live in so they’re gonna look for things to be angry at i mean why you know why does fox news have its power because it it kind of feeds a bone to the dog every day of something to be angry at and um if out of the white house and out of the pentagon are coming these ideas if there’s we need to be angry at china and china is the enemy and china’s doing this wrong and that wrong and that’s gonna trickle down because then they’re gonna be to blame um by people who are angry and um so the that’s a long time i mean asian people in the united states have been mistreated at a level that is really painful um as you know as a used citizen even to think about um some of the things that have been had to be held by being asian and um so it you know a complexity a culture that’s not understood or valued um and not even attempted to be understood or valued so it’s deep also in the sinewy fabrics of this empire and it’s deep in our you know education system and it’s deep in the yellow peril and even as we kind of understand things we’ve done wrong we’re not it didn’t we didn’t learn um because there’s no apology there’s no recognition there’s no i’ll behave differently there’s no accountability or responsibility um you know much different than if you look at germany and and you know the way they’ve atoned that doesn’t happen in the united states on anything it doesn’t happen on indigenous people and black people and asian people on you know latin america it’s like there’s or on all the places the united states has violated um there’s no sense of accountability responsibility or setting it straight so when you don’t do that then you um leave open this place of um being the enemy and being the place where anger can be targeted and we’ve already seen this we’ve seen the um pivot piece one of our partners in the coalition we’re all part of is you know really committed um to working in this community and organizing in this community for themselves um that you know the aggression on china they are very clear is going to be an aggression on them here in the united states and they’re organizing beautifully and we we work with them as much as we can we we were just together um at a disruption outside of nancy pelosi’s house delivering signatures to her on you know how her efforts as a member of congress are creating um asian hates thank you um and i think it’s important to recognize that um often times you know the enemies that we attempt to create abroad create the same at home and i think that you saw that after iraq and afghanistan as well and so remembering that these are not things these are things that have happened before and these are things that are kind of deeply embedded within u.s and american history um and that everything kind of intersects in a way and there there is not just one one way to look at things um and that actually kind of brings me to some of our final questions um which excite me also because i am a woman and i am interested in foreign affairs and foreign policy and peace and anti-war activism and i just want to know from your own perspective what kind of is this intersection between feminism and peace studies and why are you so passionate about it and why should all of us also be passionate about it i don’t see an intersection i think they’re one and the same so um you know a feminist is anti-imperialist um anti-oppression anti-extraction anti-dominance and that that’s what pieces um so you know that’s uh i i am a feminist and this is my life’s work um and i i feel you know being a peace activist our work crosses everything because um you know it was a little bit a while ago it could pink kind of exhausted one day i was just like oh my god we’re not going to end war until we end the war economy and um the war economy is a is is the patriarchy it’s the extractive destructive oppressive economy that’s destroying us our communities and the planet but there is a peace economy it’s the i see it as the feminist um feminine economy but it’s the giving sharing caring thriving relational resilient economy without which none of us would be alive but we live this lie that um the war economy and wars are somehow doing something good for our life which is not true and um you know here we are in this time where it just couldn’t be more obvious the work is you know to end the patriarchy to end the empire and to go back to the values of cooperation and care and connectivity and kindness um and listening and understanding and seeing the other and you know i could think we have 21 ways to divest from the war economy because it’s understanding that we peace activists are also indoctrinated in the culture of the war economy we live inside of it and we have some of those really bad habits ourselves and we can recognize them when you start to work on them you know it could be when we start it’s like we got to see like how transactional we are and not relational and you know how uh the war economy is structured that you feel like you live in scarcity instead of abundance or that you’re alienated instead of connected and um that whole alienation from nature or the indigenous communities that have so held on to these wisdoms that we lack about life and so i think as peace activists you know what drives us is that we want to create conditions conducive per life and there is nothing the military-industrial complex does nothing an empire does that creates conditions conducive for life and so i think as a feminist um that’s what i you know it’s like it’s about as a young woman it was about equality which meant the equality of all um it’s about care it’s about the planet and the people and war is never about the planet and the people it’s against the planet and the people so for me that it’s not an intersection it is um they’re one in the same thank you thank you i appreciate that can i say something about our um why we started a feminist foreign policy project it could pink though which is kind of scary um medea noticed that there had been a poll when um we were talking about peace with north korea when trump was talking about peace with north korea and everybody was like no peace with north korea and a poll was done and more women were against the peace with north korea than for it and in the polling of you know the united states forever women are always on the side of peace and what it was what we realized was that holy cow we’ve been so hard working to stop war we hadn’t been doing the work of educating around what is a feminist foreign policy you know it you can’t just always be doing the no you have to also be doing yes so it could pink you know working on educating around a feminist foreign policy what is that which has been happening in universities but it needs to happen in our organizations our peace organizations and it has to and we have to be living it and teaching it and so we both have the feminist foreign policy work that we do and we’re working um in universities with women’s studies department that didn’t have feminist foreign policy lands inside of it and then also um cultivating a local peace economy that when we cultivate our own local peace economy it actually helps us see the work economy better because it’s all you know it’s the smallest of the big and it’s like in our work um we want to make it a big tent and making war is just stupid and ridiculous the answer and never the answer the end goal but the only way you get there is in the small stories right it’s in the personal stories that help illuminate the problem it’s kind of like with the ben and jerry i keep going back to that because it was that action that illuminated the problem um and let people take sides very clearly so it is it you’ve got to have the small to be able to articulate and move the big and so being connected to our local peace economies is is super important and that’s why i’m such a big super huge fan of mass peace action because it really is rooted locally and you care for each other and you create community and you nurture each other’s intelligence and you have the big conversations that illuminate the issues and and help us decide where we are on them you know having these conversations where how do i think about this with my set of values how do i have a safe place because you know when we get it at cook pink we say we’re disarming because and that’s the costumes and the coloring and the way we you know dance and sing and um make people laugh because if you come with people like this no one’s going to change but if you come at listening at being able to understand where they’re coming from being able to really understand like why would somebody think that way why would somebody have that value you can’t even start to affect change unless you listen unless you really understand where somebody’s coming from and that happens um one-on-one and that happens in our community and also change happens through community as an activist you know you learn the very first thing you can only change the person closest to you um and everybody always wants to change their you know their great aunt hilda who’s like a right winger it’s like don’t even go there you know she’s got a different set of values than you you’re working with the people around you to strengthen the tuning forks that you are for peace and it always takes strengthening because we are up against a monster a monster that is huge and well funded and well organized and you know has been at this a really long time so it’s always about how do we hold each other’s hands how do we make each other smarter how do we understand the issues as deeply as possible and know what our job is in the movement we can’t do all of the jobs right but it’s like if we pick one and someone can rely on us for that that’s important and that’s valuable and that everything we do needs to be about building and that is always relational um so you know it’s like right now i can’t say enough it’s like we can talk about all these big problems but right now our work is to be building a movement big enough to affect this war machine that is really um it is the the the the fastest train in uh america is the train to war um and we need to keep throwing things in its way and um building this movement we need to stop it thank you um i think that it’s quite inspirational as you know a young young woman to hear these these words as well so i appreciate that i think zoe has one last question and then we’re going to wrap up thank you jody yes i just think this is the perfect place to ask if you have any further advice that you would give specifically to young female peace activists like us and the people around us well first of all i have a lot of gratitude for you so i want to just start with gratitude thank you for um whatever inside of you brought you to understanding um the need for peace and then you know it’s that to not let the big issues crush you or distract you but to find that thread that you can follow and to know that you know what you are is honing this tuning fork that you are for peace and so stay curious um stay questioning um find good allies and be a good ally um i you know people ask um you know how can i keep doing this it’s so depressing it’s like this is the most beautiful community of most amazing people that just make me cry for how beautiful they are and um you know when when media and i get depressed we just call each other and we go out in the streets with a sign so activism when you get depressed it’s like get out there with your sign just grab i mean it doesn’t take much it’s the other thing it’s like to make a difference two people with a sign can make a lot of noise especially in pink um because when we say it’s 10 people when you’re in pink because it just it like stands out so big i don’t know if you saw me from the arrest in um at the white house last week on monday i made the boston globe with my pink attire because why it stands out so you just got to remember um going in pink also uh makes a big statement but um don’t let the big crush you find the thing you can do right now today and follow it find the breadcrumbs that someone’s left behind being you know find the inspiration that is there for you you know create your posse um you know grow together uh there’s so many people here i see cynthia master you know uh 19 years uh code pink has been doing this and um it’s a family we feed each other we nourish each other and and um at hope pink our job we always feel like is to create the tools for activists to be engaged so we like we have the the day job of like the tools and the alerts and the things that can help you be smarter and but you know it’s it’s the the movement out there that um is going to make the difference um our jobs are to create tools create connection and um create inspiration we say um educate inspire and activate so you know find find your path um take it deep um uh because the deeper your roots the more you can sway you know like a tree so uh the more flexible you can be the more you can listen the more you don’t have to protect yourself and your ideas and the more powerful you can be thank you so much thank you for being here and for all that you do i know we have a lot of gratitude towards you as well and other mentors like you um so yeah thank you so much so i feel bad that um i can see a little bit more if there were questions i also just want to acknowledge that rj and and madison have been adding things in the chat along with some of the other uh team members of the china’s not our enemy team but um you did promise a few questions so if anybody stayed late to get a question asked i feel like i i just wanna don’t leave anyone um feeling like they didn’t get a question asked so it looks like michael and everybody else can leave but the people that didn’t get their questions [Laughter] asked oh and there’s elizabeth hi elizabeth love you there’s another good pinker from you know 19 years in the streets following us everywhere part of the family that keeps my heart warm and inspired so jody i finally got unmuted so i i love everything you’re talking about every time i listen to you i’m so inspired the question i have though is the bankers we talk about the military-industrial complex but we don’t talk about the bankers behind the war machine and it seems like we’ve loaded up every country on the planet with so much debt and now china comes along with the belt and road initiative and so it looks like they’re trying to use the same model that we did to take over the planet in a sense by lending people money by having some kind of debt uh servitude or whatever it would be called and i’m wondering where that’s going to end up leading if our bankers are the ones that are freaking out that they won’t get paid okay well so that’s a big question um so i call the bankers the war economy um so you know it’s a it’s a thing that has to end because it’s oppressive and it’s destructive and it’s extractive um um madison do you have the evo quote that you could post um uh that you know evo tweeted i think it was yesterday uh something that just um differentiated between an empire and power and i don’t want to badly quote him so i’m going to wait till madison puts in the chat but um you know yeah lending money throughout history has been problematic um is china doing it the same way as the united states i don’t know i do know the tri-continental is working on some deep research on this because i i said i don’t i like this is some deep stuff that needs to be answered by economists and um i it’s not my my expertise um and there’s lots of different stories about what’s happening with china and latin america and africa and it needs some really deep research so i i’m going to let you know that the tri-continental has that ready to you know coming out this year um to kind of do a deep dive into that you know your question asks well am i going to stop china from loaning money to countries that have been extracted to death by the united states you know i’m i don’t have my hand on that lever but i think it’s important to understand what china’s doing what the united states is has done and um what’s the difference between an empire and power and what’s the difference between a capitalist country and a socialist country both having market economies um uh is china isn’t the imf um are they you know following neoliberal liberal policies in their lending uh they want to say they’re not i don’t have an answer to that question um and you know i i don’t even want to fantasize about who they are or what the difference is it’s just happening um and what’s not there and what they’re not doing with their loans is bringing bases and soldiers so that’s the only differentiation i know um and uh a market economy probably will always have lenders but there hasn’t been you know the lending of the united states and imf is a is a brutality and so i don’t know if that same brutality is going to be china i don’t have an answer to that question okay thanks jody and uh thanks michael for that question let’s take a question from luis louise can you unmute okay okay yeah we can hear okay thanks um no when i i have sort of like an observation it’s not exactly a question something i’ve been trying to figure out is like what one of the things that i think is really wrong with the united states and is equally in a way wrong in china is how our countries treat animals that um you know we have factory farming here which is horrendous but then you know there’s chinese meat markets where all these poor critters get boiled to death alive um so it’s just i guess it’s just something that i just wanted to bring up as an observation as it’s something that i was trying to work on to uh it’s like both places are horrendous in this aspect and so it’s a way that uh it’s not like either one’s good and another one’s bad they’re both bad so um it’ll just be an interesting course of action i think that i mean it’s a crime against nature that uh with which you were talking about but it’s not like one is doing things good and the other isn’t it’s they’re both awful so anyway just an observation thank you yeah thanks louise we’ll see all right uh i think we’ll pass the floor back to drew to uh start closing off the program thank you thank you everyone for your questions um and i know jody thanked madison and rj but i just want to reiterate that um if anyone wants to save anything in the chat you can always just fully copy and paste it you can take your mouse and you know run down it and paste it into a word doc or you can also go as um as madison said just to the little three dots and the right and save things because there is a lot of quite relevant more detailed information in the chat if any of you want to save that for any future reference so thank you for moderating that and um i guess before i close jody is there any any last words you would like to say to all of us before i do a couple of thank yous but i just wanted to give you the floor one last time thank you um so i just see a lot of people i’m super grateful for including all of mass peace action it’s wonderful to be in partnership with you and i’m i’m super grateful that it’s brought us closer together and i’ve gotten to get to know many of you much more and i’m looking forward to more and more prodding and more questions and more leadership um and true and zoe thank you so much that was just a beautiful conversation and um i’m just super grateful to you and of course to my team madison and rj and all the medea who was on here and just all the code pinkers that um you know that live their lives out of a commitment to to peace and and may you know i just want to say that for me it’s a really strong place to stand and as a value and it’s nourished my life and i think it has a lot of power and um i’m i’m grateful for all of you who who do and may we just continue to grow and and bring others with us and throw a better party than this madness that’s happening around us thank you thank you so much um yeah thank you thank you everyone for joining us um tonight and thank you again to the community church of boston for co-sponsoring this event um jody it was just lovely talking to you and having a you know safe honest space to talk about all of these issues and in a way that i think makes everyone kind of more open-minded and i feel quite honored to have been a part of this conversation um and for everyone else left in the audience um i just wanted to make a couple more notes uh number one if you did enjoy this event make sure to donate to our page just to ensure that we can put on more events like this because that does matter to an extent and keep an eye out um actually for a follow-up email from either me or zoe that will have both tonight’s recorded conversation and a couple of additional links um for you to go and get a little bit more knowledge and insight into the issues that you were talking about um and then finally there are a couple of events that i also want to point your attention to that mapa is putting on in the coming weeks um first this friday at 4 pm we will be joined by scott horton who is the director of the libertarian institute and editorial director of antiwar.com and he will be joining us to talk about the blood of pentagon budget and the expansion of u.s militarism so if you’re interested in any of these topics you should tune into that 4 pm on friday and then secondly um the 76th anniversary of hiroshima and nagasaki is coming up and so in remembrance of the bombs dropped in both these cities mappa is putting on a viewing of the movie the war game in the regent theater in arlington and so if you want to hear more about these events you should visit our website on our event page and you can register for a couple of other webinars and things of that sort but i just want to do one last thank you for everyone for joining us and everyone at code pink and just this community um it’s a special one so thanks thank you thank you so much peace and love bye
rn

China Is Not Our Enemy with Jodie Evans

rn

Share this post

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.