Leveraging the education technology boom to build world class management education in India

Leveraging the education technology boom to build world class management education in India

starting all attendees are in listen only mode good morning everyone and a pleasant welcome to today’s webinar my name is victor hattenberg and i’m the business development manager at amba and bga today we will be diving into the topic of leveraging education technology to build world-class management education in india we’ve got a great list of speakers today who will provide their thoughts and views on how business schools can improve using education technology first off we will hear from our ceo of ambon bj andrew mayne wilson who will give a quick overview of the current situation in the management education market as it relates to digital learning after that we will hand it over to tata raman from sia trust new delhi and professor mj xavier founder of iim ranchi who will speak of the available technologies the challenges of using them and where management education is headed in light of the available and upcoming uh digital technologies and then to finish up uh mark stoddard the accreditation director of amban bj we’ll give a short presentation on how accreditation agencies such as ours promotes school investments into digital technologies and how we adapt to ensure schools leverage available technologies to improve learning experience for students after the presentations we will be having a q a session and a discussion for about 30 minutes so please do feel free to leave your questions in the question box and we’ll make sure to get to them as quickly as possible now that’s enough for my end uh i’d like to hand it over now to andremane wilson the ceo of ambon bj for an overview of the management education market thank you very much indeed victor and good afternoon everyone so i’m just going to share with you what i’ve learned over these six months really since the kovic 19 outbreak what we’ve learned from our amber and bga schools in this area of adopting technology and adapting to the virus um we’re sorry that we can’t be with you in person in india um victor and myself were coming on a bga promotional uh tour of india in march but unfortunately that was obviously cancelled once the virus broke out and our flights got cancelled we will be back in india we very much hope as soon as possible in the new year early in 2021 or as soon as the virus allows us to travel and come and see you again so uh second slide please victor i’d just like to talk to you first about the size of the amber and bga networks so you can get an indication of who we are on our size so the first point is the amber business school network which has now grown to or will have grown by the end of this month to 283 schools uh in 70 countries and we’re very proud to accredit 12 of the the top 20 schools in india then secondly there’s the bga business school network and that has grown to 135 schools in less than 20 months so we only launched bga in january of last year and we’ve been delighted with how many schools have rushed to join in that time so now i’m going to share with you a little bit of a global perspective of what’s going on and i’d just like to show a research slide first which is very recent research that we’ve done with employers and we’ve asked the employers who recruit mbas around the world what they felt were the most important criteria when looking for and recruiting an mba student and we were very pleased to find that to have a quality global accreditation of the mba program was by far the number one criteria amongst what was nearly a thousand employers 46 saying that international accreditation of the nba was very important and that was twice the score of the the lowest item of importance which was specialization of the nba so there’s been an explosion over these last five or six years in specialist mbas specialist mbas obviously in finance but also in oil and gas even in wine in luxury goods so it’s the the quality of the mba and its international recognition that they regard as the most important now i’d just like to to share with you some of my my overview on the future of business education when the virus hit us all which it is hard really in early march of this year i’ve said to the board of amber and bga but i believe the virus would be a major problem worldwide until september 2021 an 18-month period and really that it would probably only go away globally if as and when a vaccine was found and populations mass inoculated and six months in i don’t see anything to change my view so i think that whether we like it or not the virus is going to in fact affect our lives all the way through until the autumn of next year at the earliest so so what does that really mean and point one here is what is the impact of kovid short term and long term well across all our schools around 400 of them in amber and bga there isn’t a single school not from chile to china to croatia that hasn’t been impacted by the virus and i would make three comments about his impact all the deans of our schools have agreed on one thing now that we must never allow ourselves to be so suddenly vulnerable again and therefore somehow with our teaching and learning we’ve got a future proof by universities and business schools against sudden future shocks like this um secondly um it was talked about before the coronavirus but it’s becoming even truer now that the impact of covid and the advancement of technology means that blended learning for many business schools is going to be the optimum solution going forward and even when the virus is gone that this will probably in my view stay the preferred option the third point is that people are beginning to realize that bachelor’s and master’s degrees are too front end loaded i.e that too much money and too much time is being spent in very early years of a career so classically your bachelor’s degree from 18 or 19 to 21 22 and then your master’s late 20s early 30s and that education coming in two large chunks and what digital learning and online learning is bringing now which is point four is the realization that annual lifelong learning is the smart way to move forward so that rather than have a one year to four year on-campus relationship with your students the first degree importantly is merely the start point of a relationship that that if you manage it well as a business school could last and bring you income and student and graduate loyalty for a 50-year career life cycle from the age of 20 in first job right the way through probably until 70 when people will look to retire even the many people now around the world even in wealthy nations don’t have final salary scheme pensions and will need to work even successful business people quite possibly until they’re 70. and then my final fifth point here is that what’s what will happen is the business school reputation becomes even more important because the top schools around the world will say our entire marketplace is no longer our global or national community but our marketplace is students from anywhere in the world who might be interested in our online program so i’m a harvard school alum and harvard business school online is now targeting students in every country that can afford to do a harvard program so suddenly you find yourselves competing or soon will do on a global stage without the physical protection of proximity to your campus being the main requirement of someone able to come and do a degree with you finally i’m just going to go on to 10 positive points which i believe have become now the 10 online learning degree advantages because there’s talk around the world of some students complaining that they’re not back on campus but i think on the positive side there are there are 10 key attributes which will ensure that online learning one of the good things to come out of kovid has probably been accelerated by five years in its market penetration of the management education market so number one and it’s the obvious first advantage is a hundred percent flexibility the students can study from anywhere and at any time and with so much job uncertainty around uh in these code big times that’s more attractive than ever the second advantage is program quality um schools now are saying look let’s take our mba program we’ve developed the online program so it is the same curriculum it’s just the delivery modes that are different but you are getting the same mba it’s just the delivery that’s different and as a result of number two the third benefit and i’m seeing this in some of our european schools now including mastery school of management the latest one that emailed me yesterday the online mba qualification is not being called an online mba the business school if you do the online version or the physical campus version it’s still called the same thing you have been awarded an mba qualification they’re not differentiating between whether it was online or offline the fourth benefit is one that’s developing very fast at the moment from what was fairly chaotic admittedly in march and that is now schools realize that the student needs to have a helicopter view on day one of the whole curriculum for the duration of the degree whether it’s one years two years three years and then the top schools are segmenting it into neat modules and weekly assignments so there you can see your overall online degree but it’s being broken down into bite-sized chunks so you know how much work you’ve got to do over the next eight week period there’s weekly assignments to keep the student engaged and that builds neatly into the whole one or two or even three-year degree so it’s becoming much clearer the fifth advancement since covid has been that the online learning platforms which in some cases didn’t exist at all are being rapidly developed and it’s put something out there get feedback from students get feedback from lecturers learn fine-tune it and adjust it and the online learning platforms are now developing very rapidly and becoming much easier to work with and the fact that many programs around the world are going to have to be taught entirely online this year have really accelerated people’s focus here because they know that this is a big area of student confusion and complaint the sixth benefit is how the one thing that online lacks is how do you bring high touch a high touch experience for the students through high tech into these programs and i’ve been really i’ve been really impressed with what i’ve seen from about 20 of our schools so far they’re making the online teaching as interactive as possible so that there are discussion forums within the peer group within the cohort with the professors and they’re sharing experiences questions debates case studies and then that’s being enhanced even further each month with one to two to three one-to-one calls with the tutor or professor so they’re trying to replicate the care and attention as much as they can then the seventh area is the is the benefit of cohort size and i’m seeing our schools going two different ways here some are holding and attracting very large cohorts and they’re saying that the benefit of this is you will have although it’s a virtual network you’ll have a much larger network than if you were being physically toured on campus and some schools are going completely the other way and they’re keeping the cohort very small so that they can reassure the student that even though it’s not face-to-face learning um you’re gonna get because it’s a small cohort more one-to-one lecturer or professor attention than you might have got even if it had been physical then the next benefit is a really big one that’s growing over time and that is that with some campus lectures still taking place the schools know that they can mix and match online learning with on-campus lectures so if you take some of the mba programs uh the the mba is largely online but if you can physically get to the campus you’re being allowed to join some of the physical on-campus lecturers which are largely being held for those domestic students that can still go on campus so i’ve just had um a call this morning with the president of the bled institute of management in slovenia and all the slovenians can go russians can travel ukrainians can travel it’s the rest of western europe and asia that can’t so they’re mixing and matching the staff the the the students in a hybrid class then what may prove to be the biggest benefit of them all in terms of choice going forward is that as people are building their online digital stock their inventory of modules programs and courses you will find that you have a huge choice of electives and then you can customize your own degree from the knowledge bank of programs within the school and that is growing exponentially as every month of new content being created and then often shared among some schools who are now in non-competing alliances so you might get an alliance of six schools from six different countries all sharing digitally produced content and then finally and my last point for this morning is that the cost issue of course is one that will attract students some schools are offering the online experience at a much lower price harvard are trying to charge the same price for the online mba as the physical on-campus mba in boston but in many cases the online mba is being offered cheaper but even if it isn’t the lower travel and accommodation costs if you don’t have to be residential in that city or on campus those are a guaranteed saving for students so we think there will be in time a significant cost advantage for many if not all programs so that’s just me sharing some of the experiences that i’ve seen over these last six months of the use of technology in developing online and i think that this has accelerated the acceptance of lifelong learning and online learning by about five years and that once the virus has gone the blended learning environment and the 100 online learning environment which have become norms during covid and will become even more normal with another 12 months of covid will have a good and long lasting impact on the marketplace but it does mean that each school needs to capacity build and build its reputation because you will be competing in the global marketplace as opposed to a local marketplace that’s all from me now victor i will hand back to you thank you very much thank you andrew thank you very very interesting uh next speaker is tatatri raman tatatri i will make you the presenter right now the technology uh as we are talking about the topic is actually a leveraging education technology boom to build world-class management education in india this was uh chosen basically uh to reflect what is going on now in the country uh it’s been in fact um the kovit 19 seemed to have completely changed the scene but it actually built on what was existing uh in terms of technology adaptation india is one of the fastest nations as i can see to adapt new technologies and it has always been doing that and very surprisingly i would see like for example you take this uh particular uh secondlife.com i don’t know how many of you have really heard about this particular thing and it’s interesting that secondlife.com is uh kind of almost saying that digital and virtual life is what we offer so everybody who gets in there gets an avatar avatar is your same name and uh kind of uh some kind of a figurine that will suit your name and then you uh start working in this particular website as if you know it’s your work so interestingly this secondlife.com has a very very large education market under its belt and again for your information um almost 10 years back i think at imc gaziabad in india we did uh do a student uh case competition uh on the secondlife.com so what i’m saying is uh basically that the virtual world is something which we are very very familiar with in this country and i just take one more example take for example this ec chair you see chair is a technology which we have if you look at all the academic issues most of them would be definitely aware of this and many of them would have attended the conferences hosted by the ec chair and definitely all phd students would have used the cc chair as a sort of conduit to push their papers up and down and get some comments of the grid and so on so easyj has been a very very familiar sort of digital technology that could be made available to you and of course our great moodle moodle is something that practically everybody and is interested in this particular uh you know offering and practically all the schools have got it and probably this is one of the first online freely available uh sort of technology that was used by the business schools once again the accredited school psg i remember uh that we introduced this technology to them at the beginning that’s almost 15 years back or so and 15 to 12 years back probably yeah and now practically every school in india is using uh moodle as a platform and uh of course you have the other one which is the perigram peregrine platform has been offering their online exams and now the business school resource center so business school resource center for example isn’t completely digitally offered cases of uh things which have actually happened about a week or ten days back and rather than the two year or one year or even a five year old case that we discuss so this is another technology tool which is being used extensively by the business schools everywhere so it’s these are the challenges basically see if you look at the future and most of these are all familiar at this point of time it’s only familiar but people have started experimenting with this like uh you know what you call artificial intelligence robotics vr ar or blockchain all these things are being used by company i mean by the business schools which are interested in the uh you know adapting to new technologies and uh they are anyway familiar with mooc that is massive open online courses and once again in a very interesting example that one can find from india this is actually a university called ignore ignores indira gandhi open national open university now this national open university had at some point of time maybe 20 million students you are talking about massive uh you know student cohort pool this is massive really massive so we had an example of that and they had lots of different kind of blended technologies to use like satellite based uh you know communication they had uh television channels they had all kinds of things uh which they used and paper like posted material uh and online material then you have the emails and so on so experiments of this kind has been going on very very large scale in this country so familiarity uh it definitely has been there in education technology and uh the technologies that are impacting the future education which many of them are now looking at process elements recent analysis in fact gives you a very good idea of where exactly we are in terms of dispersation connectivity sustainability and so on in the classroom this is another major area and now we have listed a few of this here which are going to really make a big difference and most of it is being adapted now in the market uh today i should see that an estimate kind of an estimate that has been made now it’s about 3.5 billion dollars worth of online technology that are available in the education industry today and uh experts are saying that it could be doubling this year itself so we are talking about a seven billion dollar worth of you know the business here and probably it might even grow more exponentially than that because we are talking about something like two million schools and a million uh nearly a million colleges and that’s a huge amount of institutional industry advantage that we have in this country so let’s look at this artificial intelligence is now becoming big thing practically every school is in the uh you know using this variable technologies using rfid and other things for attendance and other things are going on and mixed reality is the classroom you try to bring in certain kind of images and things like that even on online courses like this or even the webinars and things like that there is a lot of possibility of using the mixed reality tools and then of course robotics is coming in a big time and there are a lot of experiments that are going on here 3d printing is is touching the education world in a big time and once again there are a lot of experiments going on here and of course touchless sensing is another area but everything almost uh sort of works on what you call the online availability see one of the big challenges today in most of the business schools at least in india definitely is connectivity connectivity is a very big issue today because of the vastness of the geography that we have here and most of the students are spread all over the country literally and once you are within the campus there are some challenges but without the campuses as you are at home definitely connectivity is going to be a very very major issue and that is being uh sort of we are trying to adopt new technologies to make sure that the connectivity problem is uh sort of uh you know solved see one of the things that institutions can no longer be choosy as where the technology will be adopted in other words the education technology has to be used almost any part of the institutions uh regular working and new platforms have to be sort of seen and then adapted and their adaptation has to be speeded up so network teaching and learning is becoming a trend and uh but the interesting thing again which i find personally is that i i speak to a lot of people in this industry and now and then and what i find is that the fatigue has already uh creeped in uh the faculty are saying this the students are saying that everybody is saying that there is a digital city has already come this is one thing which nobody really expected that if you are going to be online completely at you for a period of time until the covet 19 goes off uh you have to work from home but then uh without anything uh to add to that uh it’s uh it’s quite boring and you know people really get very agitated and upset and so on so this is one area of challenge that most business schools are facing or for that matter any student for that matter is facing the same issue and i personally find i mean this is again we started our work uh in 2008 and this year standards for education advancement and accreditation and we found that accreditation even at that time we thought that accreditation is going to make a very big difference in this country because accreditation brings in the digital technologies almost instantly see for example in india when we had accreditation the entire documentation at least international accreditation definitely started out like this was online so which means you have to have some kind of digital familiarity with getting your accreditation process going very well and most of the mentors who are there they were all remotely only as communicating with the uh the schools and then you had the site with see today what happens the background processes which have gone digitally even at that time but today interestingly the site visits are also virtual meetings based and almost all of them are remotely managed so this is another interesting new development that has come and most of the business schools uh definitely my colleague zebra would accept here and probably endorse me are saying that most of them do have learning management systems already working so which possibly would help them to transform very fast into the world of new technologies and of course we have seen peregrine for example has i mean i myself have administered this assessment programs using this tool everywhere so things of this kind is happening in this country and what we find uh is the future if you look at future what andrew said uh very interesting points that he said about online and open learning and the future and the way the the campuses are going to be blended there are a lot of such kind of challenges are definitely going to happen and so let’s look at this so from all these things my personal uh take is this that we need to have every school should have like we have for in accreditation we use that you should have your vision statement so here is a chance for the most business schools to develop a compelling digital vision you’ve got to have a distillation statement you’ve got to have a new strategy and a clear cut road map in terms of finance in terms of hiring of people in terms of you know what new technologies you should be able to adopt and things like that so for that you need to have a good hr policy hiring new faculty staff with adequate if not superior digital literacy and this is one area which uh in fact i must really appreciate that indian business school faculty have really adopted this new technology so fast almost all of them are using digital technologies very very seamlessly but then we do have it’s an advantage to have superiorly superior digital technology literally people in the in the market and don’t invest you know don’t hesitate to invest in front line technology in the new experimentation and accreditation possibly would really help everybody uh in this particular area which is what i find almost all the excitation agencies that we are tracking they have invested heavily into distant technologies and possibly we even will be able to guide you through this and uh of course there is no point in reinventing the wheel what is available we can use and ultimately you should know that it is people and not just technology that matters and we are not yet human ends we are not robot robots yet so we are very much human i think this is possibly the best way of you victor now thank you thank you so much sitathory uh it’s been really nice hearing your presentation uh next will be professor xavier uh i will hand it over now to you thank you victor and thank you andrew and mr torta raman for wonderful presentations uh mr andrew beautifully brought out how for example everything is going online and gradually what will happen is that we would we will have to probably face global competition he was saying like how harvard is offering the online programs all over the world right and for that what really matters is your reputation and your accreditation so you have to build your own reputation and build your credibility that’s what was his message and of course my friend mr totally raman listed out how for example india is already tech savvy the technology adoption has been happening at a very very rapid rate in the indian context of course there’s a school in bangalore that uses uh robo teachers and he was talking about artificial intel interestingly i mean the the school level adoption is much higher than adoption in the higher education institutions ar we are everything is being used in the even at the school levels so that’s what he explained and of course he also stressed upon the need to really you know have that human touch so which andrew also talked about in terms of high tech and high touch i’m going to take you little beyond all these things for example once technology comes in in a big way what next next will be a digital transformation of education so let me quickly take you through that basically after the chalk and talk the only major technology or innovation that has come into teaching is the power point you could see all of us using power points so it’s nice comfortable but then we have to go beyond that now we are happy to see for example all these lms your uh you know ea enabled proctoring tools all kinds of technologies coming in but we still follow the batch processing of students you know which is typical of industrial age in a industrial model you know recruit students in a batch and then move them through the assembly line finally you graduate but we are in the information age and we are still using that old model the other major problem is because of that our hang up on this unit based approach uh education industry is one of the you know least efficient it has the lowest productivity and we are still talking about you know one teacher for every 20 students now this is the biggest problem of course andrew in his presentation talked about how you can completely customize your education if you go online so that’s where we have to move into and of course you know poor return on investment for students also what is happening is because we are inefficiently run inefficiently managed our fee keeps on going up but with stagnant salaries so what is the way out what is the future like what is the real challenge the question i pose each one of you present here is that can we not build a system that can offer customized personalized education at the lowest pass so this is where we are let me show you know how it is going to happen of course you know some of the thinkers have been always talking about this shift that should happen this digital transformation because you can see that in every industry if you if you see you know disney world disney world is you know started with drawings and then converting into films today everything is digitized imagine you know making those films without for example your computers your digital transformation so india process has been completely transformed education industry has always been reluctant to accept that saying that you know we need that personal touch only teachers can do it and so on so forth but where regulators have failed corona has succeeded in speeding up the digital transformation of education so actually we are moved at least five years ahead because of corona that’s what andrew was mentioning now what will be the future like again andrew did talk about that that the future is that you are going to have a student for his entire life so if someone has a 50 years of working life so till the age of 70 is going to be your student so the future model is going to be you know what i call the hop on and hop off model of education so degrees will become less relevant in the future as compared to credits you have to earn credits you have to learn learn skills acquire skills the students will earn credits throughout their life by hopping on to education whenever they need and hopping off to employment from time to time so you will be a learner throughout that’s what is going to happen it is happening and to make this possible you need vertical and horizontal linkages between institutions and across institutions and they have to be made across colleges across courses all that will not use technology now that’s when efficiency also will happen so the what is happening is that ultimately all these will lead to uberization of education with clusters of institution offering programs rather than individual colleges and universities let me tell you how it is going to happen like in the uber model you know what will happen is smaller colleges will get attached to a century hub like you know if harvard has to consolidate and come to all over the place you know they can take up take over some of the local colleges and then they will be available for them to make the delivery and it is like an affiliate model of large universities but the central institution will play a major role in shaping the local colleges local colleges will receive online classes from the central node for selected subjects local colleges also will teach for the entire network so it will be a kind of a mix of these things this is what will happen so specialization and use of technology will improve overall efficiency and effectiveness of the whole system so by doing this you will be able to optimize on your resources not only faculty resource library resource all other resources and overall efficiency will go up and you will be able to offer customized education interestingly in the indian context what is happening is that we have recently had a national education policy 2020 passed by our parliament this plans to end the fragmentation of higher education by transforming standalone education institutions to large multi-disciplinary universities our higher education institutional clusters or knowledge hubs you know i would say that this is a very very uh forward-thinking vision that indian government has actually come up with now but it is also a big challenge for many of the standalone institutions in the indian context most of the mba institutions are all standalone institutions like iams they offer only management education so today they are saying that that’s not possible every education every college should offer liberal education so a management student should learn also engineering you know should learn vocational skills should learn philosophy psychology and so on so forth you know that’s what the government envisages so what they are really looking at is a typical for example if you are talking about the bba curriculum the undergraduate curriculum they want to make it all a four year curriculum though they are permitting three year courses also so there has to be a foundation where they should do courses on language literature music philosophy indology art dance statistics sociology etc etc then they have to go into their specialization courses even during the next two years they have to do courses from allied areas courses from completely other areas and then to top it up they are saying that they should actually do courses on environment ethics sustainability and also make them future ready ai blockchain big data all that should be compulsorily taught for everybody now the beauty is that they want to make a holistic person of course you know this is new to india if you go to harvard sorry harvard or even oxford or iowa taught in buckingham university in uk all these places you know they always offer many different courses so from one college you can go to another college take any course indian context we always have standalone institutions engineering institutions management institutions so students never had the opportunity to do courses from other disciplines so now the government insists that this is what you have to do the next thing that the government of india is going to do is to allow for migration of students from one college to another college now this migration can happen at the end of first year second year third year you know anytime they want they can go they can go to another college or they can actually go and take up a job or they can start an enterprise then work for a sometime and then come back at any time now amazing amount of flexibility that the government of india is trying to build into this you know all these will require tremendous use of technology again as you all know you see the india has a social security identification system called aadhar cards this is the world’s largest kind of i.t system where for example identification the information about all the citizens are stored in a central repository so today for example they are trying to create a credit bank so students can actually store their credits and then use the credits so what happens is that it allows for beautiful flexibility for the students so they could study for some time work for some time come back again to study go from one college to another college so this is the amount of flexibility that nep is trying to invite and another interesting aspect is that what this government of india has done is that you form higher education clusters or knowledge hubs by actually collaborating with different colleges maybe an engineering college arts and science college polytechnic college law college medical college etc so that this hub can offer any student can actually suppose any mba student he will be part of your you know maybe your commerce and management college but that person will have the opportunity to do courses from agriculture or law or medical or polytechnic so this is how this education system will shape up so there will be a massive consolidation and several smaller institutions may fall by the wayside this is how the technology is evolving the next level of actually educational deployment of education technology will be something like your artificial intelligence and other tools for precision learning what is expected is that in future just like you have precision medicine precision agriculture learning will also become personalized and customized so the precision agriculture means you know you for each crop you exactly give the amount of nutrient as needed by that particular crop so this is what is the new kind of a model where future will belong to those who develop platforms for customized personalized individual course offerings using artificial intelligence now for example there is a company called metacog in bangalore it has it’s an app basically for iit jee coaching which is available on play store this completely customizes your entire iit jee training according to the individual capability so a student can will get you know we’ll be thrown at certain questions and then based on that the program will access his kind of knowledge level in that area and then based on that it will build it will give the other questions it will train on other subjects so if he likes for example magnetism then it will give more of magnetism so thermodynamics is little slow then it will gradually build him in thermodynamics so education completely will be blended it will be a hybrid kind of a learning model and student will have the kind of uh you know will the entire education will be customized there is no point in saying that it’s a four year degree program this is a fixed syllabus this is a fixed curriculum it ultimately everything is made into some kind of a common units and then the whole thing goes into your credit bank this credit bank will have credits for your regular courses your vocational education courses your online courses your offline courses and the government is working out on a skill and knowledge equivalence framework which is already there so you will get a perfect credit equivalent and then you can keep on actually learning whatever you need acquire credits and finally actually you qualify and learning is going to become lifelong so this is going to be the future so your mba program itself what will happen is artificial intelligence driven mba program will completely customize the entire mba program for you so each person will actually receive a completely customized personalized mba program now how many of the institutions are ready to face this kind of a challenge how many of your mba institutions are ready for that kind of a consolidation so standalone institutions will have a problem now to lastly there are a lot of implications for accreditors and regulators also for example will they accredit a college or will they accredited will you accredit a knowledge hub this is the problem because several colleges are joining together and they are offering a program now the boundaries are actually becoming completely broken so one college another college you know the boundaries are actually very very broken so it is extremely difficult to say that where does harvard end and the local college begins so this is the problem again the problem is student faculty ratio so we are actually demanding that you need 1 is to 20 ratio 1 is to 5 ratio a creditors ranking agency they all harp on this but why do you look at actually input you look at the output so quality of output is what we should measure and then we should work on that and need to develop a robust skill and knowledge equivalence framework that’s a big challenge for government itself is working on it i’m sure actually accrediting agencies also will face this finally even alumni definition will be a big challenge so you are a student started one year study here then some credits he acquired in some other college some credits he went and worked and then came back and acquired so these are going to be the real challenges for your accreditors and regulators now with this i’ll stop here and probably you know i am open to any kind of a discussion and questions over to you victor thank you so much professor xavier and there’s some really good points here that we uh we will discuss in the q a session uh before we go to the q a session uh we have our last presenter mark stoddard uh the accreditation director at ambam bj um and then i just want to remind everyone that uh you can ask your questions in the meantime in the uh questions box so do feel free to leave your questions there uh for now though over to you mark right thank you victor um i just want to say a few words about bga’s commitment to digital learning and bj really was designed from the very beginning to be an innovative membership validation and accreditation system so support for digital and online learning is really in uh dna um that said we really only have selective specific reference to online digital or virtual learning and that is really by design because we don’t believe that online learning technology enhanced learning should be an end in itself but it should be utilized to enhance the overall student learning experience so there are some very specific elements of bga within our documentation within our processes which do require some input into the digital space in fact it is included in one of the nine principles of the bga charter for those of you that don’t know bga is driven by its nine points of its charter which underlines everything that bga does and tries to do and one of those point six is about impact innovation and excellence and i think for most people specifically in the current climate um you know digital learning really is at the forefront of most people’s minds when they think about innovation in education but also digitization can very clearly enhance the impact of an institution and its education policies and so i think that that is really embedded into what bga is all about we also look at innovation and digital learning in every aspect of the bga accreditation criteria i don’t want to read these out for you word by word here but if you look at the institution section we require that um institutions have effective policies and mechanisms to provoke promote and support innovation in learning and with resources dedicated to that and so that is a very important part of accredited institutions commitment to innovation in the section on faculty we require that faculty should be committed to innovating in the classroom and obviously technology is a big part of that even in regards to students we expect that marketing and recruitment should ensure sustainability of programs and to ensure optimal numbers required based on the pedagogical approach particularly in terms of the program design and delivery digital learning becomes very important and we do require that an institution can demonstrate its innovation in program design delivery and the way in which that mate might promote a range of programs and andrew has already talked about blended learning online learning and the way in which those are really being driven particularly through the current crisis that we are working through and then also i’ve mentioned faculty and students but i think it’s also very important to mention alumni and professor xavier talked about this in his presentation uh towards the end there that that really we also have to think about the way that digitization can enhance your engagement with your alumni but also can enhance the services that you provide to your alumni and in a lifelong learning approach really digital digitization virtual online is really the best way to be able to engage a wide variety of people who might well be working or living all around the world and to enhance their their lifelong learning experiences and so there are a variety of services that bga offers beyond just the accreditation service um for enhancing digital and online learning and i’ll just pick up a few of these here the first one is that we offer every member institution of bga a free annual desktop review and a school can use this for a variety of ways and a variety of options i can use it to look at programs you use it to look at certain strategies perhaps an internationalization strategy but you could also choose to look at your digitization strategy and use the desktop review and to do that and so our panel of experts will look at documents that you submit about that particular area and we will provide a written report which provides details on how you can improve in that particular area and utilize best practice from around the world and from within our network to enable you to have a essentially a annual free consultancy on that particular area if you want to take that further we can also offer you a mentorship scheme within bga membership and again you could utilize that um towards enhancing your digitization approach and so we would obviously work with you to make sure that the mentor that you have working with you has specific expertise in that area if that is what you are looking for and then thirdly it’s important to also talk about the networking elements and the bga network is is a very strong network it’s a growing network and one of the things that personally i enjoy very much about working in this industry is that even though we are all competing uh competing for students competing for market share it’s much more a collaborative rather than a competitive industry and you know our network really is um very keen and committed to sharing best practice with each other to make sure that we are all delivering the best possible education that we can and so taking advantage of that network to share best practice on digital learning is a real advantage of being a member of bga so that’s all i really wanted to say about bj at this moment in time uh obviously i’m very happy to take any questions that you might have on vga specifically either in this session or or afterwards i now hand over to victor um to hopefully feel the questions that we’ve had from our from our audience thank you so much mark uh and uh this will now be the start of our q a session so i encourage everyone to leave your questions um but for now i kind of want to bring up a few things that that i thought of um and i want to get kind of straight to the point that you brought up professor xavier with regards to individualized learning and this is of course a very important topic this is quite a something that will perhaps radicalize the entire uh industry in a way what i wanted to ask though is when you go for such specific individual learning one of the key say positives of an education process is usually that you are in a cohort where you can learn with people roughly at the same pace as yourself are we in danger of losing that aspect if we go into such a strongly individualized learning approach yeah thanks victor yeah that’s a interesting question now the uh there are different stages where for example this this works very well and also for example we are talking about a kind of a hybrid model so we are not suggesting that to everyone you give a customized individualized kind of thing it’s it’s a mass customization kind of an approach so you have at the early stages you have a lot of these what you call that batch processing approach but when you go and take up a job and come back for online you know future learning uh you’re learning throughout your life i mean that point of time that customized learning is much better so there are situations where for example it it makes sense to really you know learn on your own learn at your pace learn what you like so rather than actually you know going through a kind of a routine so for example um when somebody is joining a college i learn statistics okay now statistics there’s a fixed 30 hours of 50 hours of actually input that is given to a student instead you modularize it this is some minimum amount you know i learn and then if i am interested i can do 100 hours of statistics or 200 hours of statistics so we need to actually modularize and then allow this students to go for that certainly i mean what you are talking about is this group dynamics learning from each other for that we have to create cohorts cohorts who are actually you know in the same level of uh learning uh at the different points of time right very good and in terms of uh and this is a question for for anyone here who wants to take it uh in terms of lifelong learning i mean this is a very important uh thing that kind of latches on to what we just talked about um it’s that ability to keep learning how do you see that developing in the next five to ten years will we see institutions being forced to move into this area or will there be a bit of a backlash in terms of you know spending so much energy and and and commitment towards lifelong learning modules yeah of course go ahead and answer that yeah see uh frankly speaking i think we have to approach this from the other point of view in terms of the hr point of view where do you get your jobs uh how do you get your career and it depends on that the learning actually takes place the initial degree is something that will entry point your job but if you want to really grow in your career or your job you need to have to add to the qualification and so the way things are the future is going to be very interesting by by way of how the hr policies of big companies are going to work uh how are they going to reward them how are they going to compensate them for the kind of education that they’ll be receiving so to a large extent the dynamics rests both with the employer as well as with the employee so this is how the lifelong learning is going to be dictated too of course there is a definite need for some some at least to continue to learn but not all of them if they’re all of them have to get involved it is going to be the other side that the employer side which has to really come with that kind of a demand from that side that’s what i i personally think yeah great uh can i also make one point on uh the uh thing about accreditation i have my own question on this that uh from this discussion that we’ve been having in the last few uh uh minutes or so uh it’s looks like um the programmatic accreditation versus institutional accreditation that we generally discuss a lot about this right so uh the way things are the way zebra puts it is that it’s it’s going to be a program focused rather than the institution focus in other words a person is going to acquire his degree uh from different sources by blending all this and then somebody is verifying it probably the accreditation agencies going forward would become that kind of institution who will first verify whether the person is really qualified or not in terms of has he acquired the knowledge that is needed for him to be called an mba student or whether he has learned this particular program so in other words the second part opens up there the second part is whether the program which has been approved and accepted by the accreditation agency can also be verified and then certified in other words the accreditation shifts away from institutions to the individual in other words your the bga the member of bga need not be institution it could be the individual mba student who gets accredited i mean probably there is some kind of a system that you would come up with where you can say that this particular qualification acquired has been accredited by say bga yeah so probably this is a thought well if i could just respond to that uh i think there’s two very nice elements to bga that dovetail into exactly what you’ve just talked about i mean one is the fact that you know one of the key pillars of bga is impact and you know then you’re looking at outputs you know you’re not really looking at inputs you’re not looking at the input in terms of the student you’re looking at input in terms of this program what you’re looking at is can the graduates do what the program was set out to do and if you can demonstrate that and measure that and evidence that then really what you’ve got is a really strong basis for saying this is a quality education so that’s the first element and the second element is that bga does have an individual membership arm for you know for individuals who who wish to become members and they can become members for free if their institution is a pga member and so you know bga offers a range of lifelong learning um opportunities within its own framework which actually work hand-in-hand dovetail with lifelong learning opportunities that the institutions themselves offer so it’s a it’s a collaborative system rather than a competing one and so i think yes what you’ve talked about is exactly the way um that the bga is trying to respond to those particular needs fantastic we’ve got a question from the audience here uh and the question is whether free migration from one school to another school may have financial implications on institutions yeah uh can i take india of course go on of course yes yeah there is a very not in all these migration gum the the accreditation is going to play a major role the national accreditation council is going to put colleges into three tiers tiers top tier second tier and the third tier so migration from a third tier college to a top tier college is not going to be easy that that is one issue but at the same time government is going to allow 100 top universities to come and set shop in india once that happens students will have the flexibility to move from a indian institution to a foreign university of course there will be financial implication the fee structure government is not is not going to actually regulate that they are saying you can collect a reasonable fee according to your cost so if somebody is willing to pay more they can migrate to a college that collects a higher fee so there is a financial implication there is also this tears so you have to keep that in mind so from a low you know local college somebody cannot seek admission into an iam or an iii that is not going to work yep um okay so let’s talk about a little bit about faculty here training faculty to make them let’s say highly qualified in the areas of digital technologies this is an area that a lot of schools struggle with understandably are there any ideas from from your end where you could kind of promote this kind of digital um let’s say education of faculty to make them more let’s say familiar and and uh comfortable using various digital technologies yeah okay so uh you see this uh this adoption process there will always be some laggers and uh there are early adopters so what we have done is identify the pro technology faculty and uh get them to you know use all these things then they train the other faculty and then they get you know slowly they get used to that but consciously now institutions have to invest a lot of money on training the faculty but even after that you find that about 15 to 20 percent of the faculty i mean still don’t want to change they are take a much longer time to change so those people you put them on the research track track so they are asked to do more research and then people who are conversant with technology are asked to do more teaching so invariably a good teacher also easily adapts to the technology normally someone who loves to teach they also learn these technologies faster and the technology training has become a major part of it for the present institution where i am working i am the head of the center for technology and innovation and my role is to train my faculty so constantly we offer every almost every week we have some program or other we keep on training them any new developments happen we offer a training program it could be just a one hour program here half an hour program initially we had a five days program for all the faculty you know that’s how we trained everybody we have to get used to this but every day new technology is coming a new training start to happen yeah i have a can i of course go ahead yeah um my personal feeling here again uh is that just the way the students may have to uh really i mean your old approach towards the student have to really change now based on the program accreditation swarm i would also think that the fact can be uh waiting may become a big deal as we work with the future because so far the it has been institutional rating and the the fact that assets based on their annual performance and so on and so forth but now uh with this technology of blended learning and people going uh getting their credits from anywhere and so on i think individual faculty need to have to get ranked uh on a dynamic basis so there would be definitely ranking institutions uh would come up ranking the faculty and probably institutions like yours for example would definitely play a big role in terms of ranking them on a dynamic basis what happens is that a particular course you may be very familiar with and maybe adopting a lot of new technologies so you get a better ranking there or in some other subject he’s not very uh you know familiar probably so subject ranking technology adaptation ranking teaching ranking and so on so many parameters can be evolved at the developer uh ranking system for the individual faculty this could be a worldwide phenomenon for the simple reason again that in the indian context definitely going there is going to be a lot of international institutions going to come in and that means the faculty would be very diverse so how do i as a student for example identify which course to take and how can i go take that course from that particular faculty because i don’t know anything about that person so if there is a independent rating of that faculty and on a dynamic basis available in the platform then it would make me as a student uh much easier for me to go and pick up that particular course this will also apply to the institutions because today again institutions are desperately looking for a good quality faculty see the old system of you know a particular institution teaches everything from using their own faculty is going already there is a certain kind of understanding and acceptance that 20 of the courses can be taught by an outside faculty i mean the uh what do you call it adjunct faculty or call it or guest faculty and so on so now it’s completely different because most of these courses might have to migrate away from the institution which means you have to look for those faculty so i think faculty ranking is going to become a very big deal as you go to the future this is my personal thing yeah no no i i hundred percent agree with you because just as you go and buy any product from an online store you have ratings of products ratings of the vendors students will have the flexibility to choose the faculty choose the courses based on some kind of independent rating and ranking so this and this has to be done on a dynamic basis already in uh some of the institutions where i worked you know i introduced this system of collecting feedback from students on a for every class at the end of every class they give a rating on a five point scale so you have a faculty rated always so when the same course statistics is offered by five different faculty the student can see what is the rating of the faculty and then based on that he will opt for that now if it can be now if it is going to be intercollegiate then there has to be somebody like bga you know some independent agency has to have this kind of a rating made available to the students and the students will choose the courses based on that and of course faculty pay will be commensurate with his rating and he can reach out to a thousand yeah faculty will not be limited to one institution he will be available for multiple institutions because we are in a gig economy so he’ll be a gig faculty who will be available to multiple institutions and this pay he can earn 20 times 100 times more than what he is earning today but that’s a kind of a model that would possibly come up with with this technologies and changes if i could just add to the discussion here i think it is it’s so imperative to have um not just faculty training but also to have support and have opportunities to share best practice um you know faculty members because a good quality online education is not just putting your lecture online it’s not just recording and making it available to everyone you know it has to be bespoke it has to be designed in a certain way for the platform and for the pedagogy that you have and you want to to enable and so you know it’s essential to do things in new and different ways and therefore you know people have to have support to be able to to understand what the options and the opportunities are correct yeah yeah yeah i have one point to me uh interestingly very interestingly that when we were doing the ranking that when i started the ranking way back in 2000 in india one of the areas where we really focused very seriously was the faculty where we said we had 76 parameters uh gauging a faculty i mean just give one small example uh if suppose somebody says that my phd i am a phd doctor okay all right so i looked at his phd very very carefully there are 16 parameters by from where we were looking at this uh phd saying that where did you get your phd from what was the last work that you did in your phd did you do any research in your phd after you got your phd how many people did you lead and how many of them were actually in your area of phd and so on so we we used to ask these questions 76 different questions now probably things of that kind has to be removed from our list and then a specific uh say for example like a stock exchange you can have a faculty exchange where the faculty can actually offer their services on a hourly basis and that would definitely be again uh rated uh on a dynamic basis so this is a possibility very good now actually related to faculty and and this is he brought up a very good point professor xavier in the terms of this is not only good for students in terms of their let’s say highly personalized and let’s say structure degree you could call it or education plan but it’s also very good for faculty because they can work together now with a lot of different institutions and some of the best teachers will have the opportunity to be present at many different institutions but then that brings up the next question where if you have institutions from all over the world competing with each other um and let’s say a lot of it is online um will there be some over saturation or will this be you know naturally good for the market what do you think here you mean saturation of faculty uh in terms of uh the business education so if you have the same faculty teaching at various institutions um around the world um are we basically are we are we somehow taking away a little bit of the let’s say experience as you would expect at various campuses let’s say if you went to an indian campus you got you get a very different experience than going to say a school in michigan for instance in the u.s yeah it is now see what is happening is what is your unit of analysis unit of analysis was a college now unit of analysis is a faculty so if you take so i i so i i go to harvard but even in harvard not all professors are very good so now as a student i have a choice i will i will attend michael porter’s course in harvard and i’ll take some other professor in london business school and i’ll go to another professor in [Music] iam ahmadabad so we are to give the benefit to the student so he has the option of mixing and matching and making up his own credits so it doesn’t matter so he pays a differential tuition fee to different faculty so his course may be lucky heavily priced another course maybe so is price based on the market i mean these are things which should happen if it happens then then for example your uh for you know you don’t need so many faculty you you you can do the entire teaching lesser faculty but high quality faculty who can reach out to very large number of people and they can also you know if they if somebody is willing to pay a very high tuition fee he will do a private tuition to somebody that’s also possible it reminds me i can have a private it reminds me a little bit of how it used to be if you go back to say uh the ancient greek times you would have your you know specific to that and you did bring up the point of you know the industrial revolution how that brought us into batches and cohorts yes now it will go back to the olden days where for example you can have a private tutor so the private tutor need not be a physical tutor because you they will then have a humanoid you know cloned which will actually offer you customized education so the humanoid of michael porter or some top professor will be teaching everywhere so so the cost will come down so it is at the advanced level for a doctoral program for a phd work then you have to work one-on-one with that professor but otherwise a lot of these things will get automated and modularized so i’ve got a question for that happening i oh yeah go ahead of course yeah this uh this in
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Leveraging the education technology boom to build world class management education in India

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