What is Socialism in Canada? pt.1 (ft. Aaron from Re-education)

What is Socialism in Canada? pt.1 (ft. Aaron from Re-education)

[Music] all right let’s get into it let’s [ __ ] go let’s [ __ ] do it yeah let’s go all right sorry um please introduce yourself uh i assume most of the people have watched my stream know who you are but in case we have some um uh late bloomers out there um go ahead sure uh my name is aaron i host the show re-education uh and basically uh on my show we talk about theory we try to see if we can relate that theory to real life praxis and sometimes i just talk about stuff that i that i feel like is important at the time all right um so so usually uh this is just a fun side note usually whenever i have people on for this socialism around the world project i usually start my stream by by playing the national anthem of the country they’re from but i gotta say your national anthem [ __ ] sucks yeah it’s it’s not very it’s really boring it’s yeah it’s very liberal yes so i ended up going with the uh the international instead that’s much better that’s one that we can definitely agree on absolutely so uh so you’re canadian where in canada are you from uh so i’m from the western half of canada so uh alberta uh saskatchewan uh right in around there okay so basically all the way over at alaskan border [Laughter] not quite that far but pretty close all right um so your your show is about theory and and uh practice how how theory can be translated into practices what i’m as far as i understand it yeah for the most part um i uh basically what i try to do is i try to get as many ideas as i possibly can like socialistic ideas i try to uh rattle them around in my brain and see how i can um basically regurgitate them for a modern day audience so i i usually read a whole lot of books or a lot of pamphlets or whatever and then later i kind of give my interpretation of it and then after a little while i’ll try to see if we can use that somehow in real life so uh the first thing that we started doing that with was mass line organizing oh sorry i’m bumping my microphone um yeah the first thing we started doing was mass line organizing and uh i have a very um anarchistic uh take on masterline organizing so i do it a little bit differently than some maoist organizations do but essentially the idea is uh talking to people in your local community finding out what the problems are in that community and then having those uh problems come to us people that know a lot about socialism trying to find out if there’s some sort of socialist solution to that problem and then bringing it back to the community and basically uh repeating that process over and over and over until we find uh certain things that’ll work um now calls them a line uh that would kind of insinuate sort of like a marching order or like a line to go by um we usually just call it like a solution like a socialist solution and um through that we were able to come up with a couple of different things the first thing that we started to do was uh basically door-to-door food delivery for people that don’t have any food it was sort of like a covid friendly uh direct to your door um food bank sort of deal we would find say 10 15 people that needed food um children people with families older people stuff like that and uh we would get together a bunch of different bags that had uh what they what that specific person would probably need and delivered them to their houses so it was like uh from each according to their ability to according to their need we had the ability they had the need we found out what their need was we um tried to fix that uh and then later on um i started uh doing a lot more research into mutual aid and uh gift economics and that sort of thing so uh we started our community fridge program which has been going very well so far in the la it started just before christmas and in the past few months we’ve been able to put up uh two different uh community fridges in two different neighborhoods that suit two very different types of demographics that have very different needs as well so and that’s been going uh really well so and then i also talk about news and stuff like that whenever it comes up like i was just talking about all of the uh protests that were going on the last couple of days yeah so you’re basically you guys are taking down the bourgeoisie one bridge at the time is what i’m getting you [ __ ] bet it’s not all about just the fridges either it’s not all just about specifically um delivering food though that is important trying to fix food security is important but probably helping the community yeah exactly the community fridge itself um as an entity and this could happen with any kind of free store uh is supposed to be a local hub where we use the ideas of anarchism in practice and we actually do things fully anarchistically and show the people around us that these ideas are useful they’re tenable they’re easy solutions and they work in real life and we have some we’ve done some amazing things so far the uh recent fridge that we just put up the enclosure for it uh probably runs upwards of ten thousand dollars all of the uh everything was completely free it was donated labor it was donated materials donated time uh as well as another ten thousand dollars uh was uh donated in labor and time of a boring company actually running electrical lines uh to the nearest building so we could actually run power off of the thing as well so yeah so it it it’s a way of showing that things work in real life and we also have other projects that we’re working on as well we’re slowly working on the community defense networks slowly slowly we have quite a few networks now uh and um anti-fascism networks and stuff like that so yeah we got a lot of fingers in a lot of pots that’s that’s basically what’s going on well i i i really appreciate that the the sort of effort you guys are making in that case to to the community because i i’m under the impression that a lot of like when we talk about terminally online leftism that is very unhelpful to our cause where whereas when i hear something like this that hey we organize a community to help the broader community that sounds really helpful well i i agree and it kind of reminds me of uh uh well i mean like the community helping the community sort of thing obviously it’s a maoist uh no now it’s not a maoist idea mao talks a lot about it uh but i i remember luna oy talking about um ho chi minh uh how when the peasants needed grain he didn’t wait around to teach them all how socialism works to get them grain they went in and got the [ __ ] grain and that’s what we need to do is we we can’t expect that everybody is going to understand uh socialism we can’t even expect that everybody is going to 100 become radicalized but what we can do is we can show them real world examples of how this stuff can actually function and fix people’s problems and i think that’s where we need to be meeting people at and as far as the internet being a complete like cesspool hellscape of people that are just completely inactive and actively working towards destroying the movement i completely agree and twitter is probably one of the worst places in the world for any of us to be organizing uh get out of twitter get into the get into the streets that’s what i say oh yeah that reminds me of a quote that um my friend sansi uses to say that politics is what you do not what you are and like i don’t care what people call themselves as long as they’re working in order to to you know better the world around them um like it kind of goes into the whole i don’t know how much you have how much you familiarized yourself with foster’s take on the election uh but he was talking about like if we need to brand it as super capitalism in order to bring people over we should do that yeah yeah i i find that sort of rhetoric to be very frustrating um i believe that the way that we uh think about things in the mainstream as far as socialism like the word socialism capitalism uh that sort of thing is very very skewed and uh incorrect to the definitions that we’ve used throughout history for those things um and i think that when we introduce more rhetoric that serves to muddy the waters and confuses things uh it makes things more difficult for us to actually express the real motives and and uh and uh theories that we have behind the praxis that we do and the practice behind the theories that we have so i i think that instead of muddying the language and saying things like oh we should rebrand as super capitalism what i’ve noticed works really well is being straightforward with people telling them exactly what you believe not using a bunch of buzzwords and just telling them exactly uh the way things are the way things could be through a socialist lens and if you stray away from saying uh inflammatory things like i’m uh i’m an anarchist well anarchist doesn’t really have a negative connotation here but say communism does if you say i’m a communist right out the bat people are probably going to look at you with a side eye for a little while but if you explain economics to them for a little while and they go you know i really i really appreciate that that makes a lot of sense and then they say what is that that you’re talking about you say well it’s communism then all of a sudden people are more open to listening to that sort of thing oh yeah absolutely like my take is that you you explain your ideals out the gate and then you know the the sort of name of the group is less important especially when you’re trying to bring people over and then like you say well when you’ve when you got them on the hook uh then you can introduce them to the broader ideas of the specific ideology that you you yourself follow yeah exactly like it’s not it’s not like i want everybody well i mean i do want everybody to be walking around we’re holding black flags and radicalized as [ __ ] and uh proud communists and all that sort of thing i i would love that but to expect that out of uh generation out of people that for generations have been propagandized to believe that’s a bad thing it’s not a realistic expectation so if we just work with people we talk about the things that we want to do um they’re more than willing to listen most people are pretty smart you know they’ll they’ll figure things out on their own pretty well um and uh we try to move them a little bit and we just show them a better way and that’s i i think the best way to do that sort of thing yeah so so let’s get into canada since that’s that’s why we’re here after all um sure uh you told me uh earlier today that uh you have less information about like politicians that would see themselves as uh socialists uh does that mean that you are not interested in electoralism at all or does it just mean that you just don’t you don’t trust the ones that would necessarily brand themselves as that yeah both um i i mean okay so the electoralism question is a tough one uh because in some minor instances such as in local government i have heard arguments where it could be useful and i want to i i uh for example um in uh rojava syria they used a form of government called democratic confederalism based on the ideas of marie book jim um and uh uh abdullah ocelon uh and within that they actually use a form of uh local government that uh essentially tries to elect certain people into local government that are um that directly respond to the people that elected them so i think that that’s an interesting idea and if it works i think that i would uh definitely not turn it away because uh a diversity of tactics is definitely important but when it gets to the higher forms of electoralism you end up with so much rampant corruption and cronyism and [ __ ] that even if a socialist was able to get into those positions first of all they would have to immediately step themselves down a few notches as socialists and have to play the capitalist game or else none of their constituencies is going to think that they’re doing anything for them if you go in there saying oh well i’m going to ebola i want to abolish capitalism the wage system is [ __ ] uh all of these people are wage slaves blah blah blah blah they’re going to let you talk for about five minutes before they interrupt you and laugh and say okay well now let’s talk about something serious like reducing the budget so you have to immediately step yourself back and you have to play the capitalist game so you can actually prove to your constituents that yes you’ve done something for them so that immediately brings you down um and through that method through the system it’s shown time and time again that the system is inherently corrupt uh corruptable and it works to actively corrupt uh people that enter into it uh alexandria ocasio-cortez is a perfect example of that how her rhetoric was very strong at the very beginning uh when she was running and then recently now she’s uh been seen donating money to all kinds of uh democrat politicians she’s also towed the line with a bunch of things that nancy pelosi and joe biden has wanted uh basically played defense for them so the system itself actively works to corrupt so when and when it comes all the way up to the presidency now you’re so unbelievably abstracted from your politics and politicians and everything like that that it’s not even anything anymore now it’s just a tv show now it’s just a [ __ ] game so i always tell people as far as electoralism goes if you think that it works if you think that it’s helpful then use it if you don’t think that it works like i don’t really think that it works then don’t worry about it uh either way you should spend the majority of your time doing something like uh helping people direct getting the street that sort of thing yeah so so do you know uh michael brooks at all ah i i know the name um he’s a uh he’s not a podcaster but he’s got like a youtube channel uh yeah he used to he he passed away oh that’s right yes yeah that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i know it’s all coming back to me now yeah and i feel like he had a pretty uh like at least uh i agreed with his take on electoralism even when it’s like a hillary versus trump or biden versus trump it’s like for most of your time you spend your time [Music] actively trying to make the world better and then when you in the electoral system you just vote to stop the bleeding and that’s the only thing electoralism is really there for um in ourselves well yeah and and uh to add to that it doesn’t even fully stop the bleeding it it may help a small amount but it’s like a putting a band-aid over a bullet hole um at this point i think yeah yeah exactly and and that’s a brilliant point yeah the harm reduction argument uh is is a good point um noam chomsky has made it many times that sort of thing uh i think that if we do it uh for harm reduction that’s great but i don’t think that we should be promoting it as though it’s any sort of solution ever like i don’t think that we should praise that as a good idea i don’t think that we should show it as something that’s uh necessarily useful or beneficial i in fact think that we should do the opposite we should actively demonize that sort of political thinking even though we think that it is necessary to use your vote for harm reduction and go ahead and do so absolutely we need a systemic change we need things to actively be better and not just putting small uh band-aid fixes on a gaping gushing wound yeah so so um you talked initially about like the different kinds of practices that you you are involved with um how would you say that socialist action or uh or uh anarchist action works in canada like in know in a broader picture do do you feel like you do do you have a broad support or is it like or is leftism looked kind of down on in canada or no uh okay so well i’m i’m from uh the western part of canada so uh if you’re looking at it sort of like the united states this i basically live in the south um we got a lot of uh racists we got a lot of uh white supremacist gangs and groups um uh we we actually have a lot of really really big active gangs that are uh a white nationalist here so it’s actu it’s like it’s pretty scary sometimes right because yeah there’s a lot of uh with social soldiers of odin there used to be another group uh yeah they’re pretty bad um there used to be another group called um the aryan guard but luckily they would they were chased away a long time ago probably 2016 uh by a bunch by a bunch of my good friends and that’s fun [Laughter] um and uh but yeah there are a lot of uh right wing groups three percenters is huge as well uh hell’s angels is huge and hells angels uh a lot of them are uh into the fashion stuff saying um and uh yeah so there is a lot of that and in the west uh just like in the south of america it is kind of hard to be a leftist um because they think that you’re a liberal and the funny thing about it is i actually have uh when we’re just specifically talking about the theory of it about like the things that we believe i have an easier time describing what i want and how things should be to conservatives because they’re kind of at least the ones around me are kind of anti-anti-state already so it doesn’t take much to push them over the edge of being like yeah capitalism is also [ __ ] too um so a lot of them i actually find really easy to work with and and they are mostly agreeable whereas liberals it’s more or less harder for me because i haven’t really grown up with those sorts of people so i don’t know how to talk to them i guess um and uh yeah so as far as it being easy for leftists here it’s not easy i don’t think that it’s easy for leftists anywhere but people are receptive to certain things uh the uh community fridge um initiative that we’ve been putting on people are super duper receptive to that uh as well as anti-fascist organizing man like um a couple of weeks ago uh there were a group of i believe it was eight people that were standing up to oppose fascism and after uh a bunch of [ __ ] happened uh in calgary now half the city shows up and and opposes it so i i think that a lot of people um in canada they’re they’re pretty liberal already uh even the conservatives and so leftism to canadians isn’t quite as scary i think well that’s pretty good though yeah like um [Music] do you feel like there’s a big difference between like american autism and canadian leftism uh i don’t you know that’s what uh that’s tough um i know like there’s a lot of canadian leftists that are prominent youtubers that or in influencers what do you want whatever you want to say yeah that aaron guy yeah i’d say there’s a lot bigger ones than me um so so like i think that um a lot and their audiences i know my audience and probably everybody the serfs as well uh their audiences are overwhelmingly american probably yours as well um so uh i i think that a lot of our thought as far as leftism goes uh overlaps um yeah i i don’t think that we have that much of a difference on that the conservatives on the other hand uh they are almost indistinguishable here to the conservatives or the republicans in the united states we actively have people wearing trump hats and flying trump flags and saying trump 2020 and all of these things and listen to every word that he says it’s like a cult it’s just as well i would say it’s almost as bad here as it is in the states geez i remember the first time i saw someone with a maga hat in norway and it was [ __ ] weird like like imagine being that uh engaged by a politician in the country that you are like not even like i can understand being interested in political figures in different countries because socialists do that all the time but but it’s like it’s trump it’s not even your country yeah and it’s also it’s trump like why why would you do that what would think that he was running for president in our country though most of the time because you’d you’ll see pictures of trump juxtaposed next to uh next to justin trudeau and it’s just funny whenever you see that because it’s like guys it’s not he’s not here he’s not coming he’s he’s in the states like [ __ ] christ so so about justin trudeau what’s your i assume i know what you’re gonna say ish here but what’s your take on him i i hate the guy like i think he’s terrible um he okay he’s marketably better than like some of the united states some of america’s presidents um but he he does very very very neoliberal uh policies that are similar to a lot of other neoliberal politicians all across the world he reminds me kind of like of macron but the difference is canadians don’t do anything when he does terrible [ __ ] um he did uh institute the um uh what are the uh serb benefits which is essentially a ubi that canadians get uh during the covid pandemic which is something like two thousand dollars a month or it was which was nice it was definitely nice i don’t think he would have would have done it if it wasn’t for jagmeet singh who’s the uh i guess uh democratic socialist politician for the ndp here um he really pushed him on that and kind of forced justin trudeau i feel to do something like that if he wasn’t there i don’t know if he ever would have done it um but uh so yeah that that part is good um it but also the entire thing was uh heavily means tested it was really really hard to get for a lot of people if you didn’t have a job just prior to the covid uh pandemic happening you couldn’t access the benefit a lot of people had to pay back the benefit or had the benefit canceled for whatever reason lineups for the benefit um i guess uh audi um what do we call it cues on the on the phone would last 14 hours sometimes people would log on in the morning and have to wait all day long and then end up getting hung up on by the end because the businesses or because the uh city place had closed so that was all a bunch of [ __ ] and justin trudeau himself is just like he’s a shitty person like he always um dresses up like different uh races like he just thinks that like every other race is a [ __ ] costume which really is like it’s funny to make fun of but when you like really think about it it’s really [ __ ] childish you know yeah and the fact that he did it like all the way up into his uh in into him being the pr uh prime minister is like [ __ ] off man like you’re really gonna put on a headdress and face paint yeah after like the blackface thing is quite bad yeah oh the blackface thing yeah absolutely that happened like when he was younger and then he just keeps doing the [ __ ] and he mostly and it’s almost always uh muslims or or brown people that he’s making uh that he’s basically mocking i would say that it’s mocking so yeah i [ __ ] hate justin trudeau i think that he’s terrible yeah i have a whole video series about how much he’s how big of a piece of [ __ ] he is actually i just remember that so so would you say that there are preferable alternatives to trudeau like oh yeah like within the electoral system i i know this isn’t really your field of interest but i i just want to kind of like finish it off before we move on oh yeah that’s no problem yeah i i would definitely say that jack meets singh uh he’s the leader of the ndp uh the new democrat party um i believe that’s what it stands for it’s been a long time are you democrats of canada no wait new i don’t know new democrat party i think it’s called new new democrat party or something like that anyway um he’s really good uh he’s first of all he’s a [ __ ] hottie he got my goodness um and also like yeah a lot of his policies are really good i think that he’s a really really smart guy um as far as uh socialists or you know heavy scare quotes socialists in politics goes the guy he tries i i really feel like he does try he feels like more genuine than your average politician obviously i’m not gonna you know fully endorse him or anything like that he’s still a politician he’s still going he’s still either going to be or has already been corrupted in some way um but he is a good he’s a good one and i think that if i was to vote i would probably vote ndp uh so there’s that um as far as the rest of canadian politics goes i try to stay so far away from that kind of stuff it’s not my realm you know like we do different things they uh bloviate and try to gain power through uh getting people to vote for them and uh what we’re doing is we’re just working with our um working with our communities i always say to people in the community wouldn’t it be so much better if we actually sat down in the living room and discussed the topics that we have disagreements about rather than voting on politicians who hopefully will solve the problems by themselves it’s a nonsensical idea so okay so we get we can move off the electoralism i think um sure so so in in terms of like policy then um are there any like prominent policies that leftists in canada are currently fighting hard for or against um that’s like let’s say it’s dominating the media or whatever yeah so that’s the thing you’re asking before if people are accepting of leftist ideas in canada i think that they are as far as uh leftists actually actively fighting for specific uh policy changes or anything like that there are some voices but a lot of them are not very loud and you don’t hear them very often um a lot of uh the leftists uh that i talk to they try to fight for uh expanding medicare or uh expanding the uh canadian healthcare to include things like vision care and uh um uh prosthetics and uh hearing uh care and that sort of thing um eye care all of the all of the extra stuff is not covered by our health care system which is bonkers oh as well as um pharmacare because you still have to pay for all of your medications unless you can get your company to pay for it through their healthcare policies so some leftists are fighting for those sorts of things um but that’s basically all that i can really think of off the top of my head as far as leftist groups are concerned there is a very strong anti-fascist um contingency that’s starting to pop up all across western canada uh and they’re just kicking major ass and uh yeah really being a dominant force on the streets which i’ve been really interested uh like it’s been really interesting to watch um so that’s really cool and also the mutual aid networks that have been going up like the community fridge initiative there are a lot of other people doing it not just me um and that sort of thing is it’s really been blowing up across canada as well that’s pretty cool yeah do you know do you know if it’s the same thing like let’s say on the east coast of canada or um i think on the east coast actually they’ve been focusing a lot on uh um forming uh tenants unions i think that i seen a bunch of stuff come out of uh toronto but i might be wrong about that uh but they were working there was a couple of places that were trying to form tenants unions i believe excuse me down there so i think that’s really useful uh but as far as any of that the rest of eastern canada is concerned i don’t really know much ab about it it’s such a big country it’s so far away i i’ve never been there yeah such yeah canada is the second largest country in the world wasn’t it yeah yeah by land mass and we have a population like i think it’s the same size as like california like all of canada well you have a lot of space though oh yeah yeah yeah yeah if anybody wants to come to move to canada we got a lot of room so so um so okay so in in terms of where you are um [Music] would you say that like okay so if i went out on the street where you live and i were to tell someone that hey oh i’m a leftist like within a conversation so it didn’t get weird uh would people then have like a positive or negative reaction to that generally uh if you just come straight out and say to somebody on the street here that you’re a leftist they will immediately dismiss you they’ll they’ll think that you’re a liberal or like an aoc democrat and they’ll just think that you’re a lunatic basically um even uh liberals down here probably will most of the time the liberals i’ve talked to they’ll look at leftists as being uh idealistic kind of like uh weirdos [Laughter] so yeah not a lot of people in at least my part of canada are super accepting of leftists if you call yourself a leftist right off the bat they usually warm right up to you once you talk about things for a little while like i was saying but that yeah but uh right off the bat they’re like yeah they think you’re sucks so so uh a little bit about yourself uh as i understand it and you might correct me if i’m wrong but from what i’ve heard uh you used to be pretty hardcore into the right wing yeah i was that’s true um i can talk about that a little bit if you like yeah sure like um well one what i’m a little bit interested in uh and you can talk a little bit about it of course uh is like your transition from the hardcore right wing and over to the you know good side and like how that was how your sort of perspectives of the world changed and so on yeah for sure uh so when i was uh growing up and this is years now i’m i’m an old man now right i’m in my mid-30s so um years ago back when i was in high school i used to hang out a lot with people that were involved in neo-nazi and fascist gangs now i wasn’t specifically one of them but i was in around a lot of the things that they did um and uh participated in doing some pretty stupid [ __ ] with them like graffiti and that sort of thing um and it was a really [ __ ] up time in my life uh i came from a really poor background i was an angry kid my parents had been divorced like uh we were constantly being shipped back and forth from one parent to another um a lot of uh mental abuse went on back in those days and i i guess that i suppose i was looking for some sort of outlet um and uh i had a friend of mine an ex-friend of mine now that started getting into these real neo-nazi type fascist ideas um i remember one time he was uh searching for like clan outfits and uh uh like combat boots and [ __ ] like that on on his computer at home and so obviously that was starting to get a little bit scary and i was i ended up in a bunch of incidences where i was actively trying to defend uh the things that he was saying because at the time i was like yeah freedom of speech freedom of speech this guy should be allowed to say whatever he wanted um one notable uh situation was uh this guy was um coming to school all the time or not all the time tried to come to school uh with a black shirt that had a giant uh white circle with a big black swastika in the center of it and uh yeah and the the teachers wanted to um wanted to send them home obviously because [ __ ] that like i know like looking back on this it’s like so [ __ ] stupid right but like um my my defense of him right trying to be the uh the uh rational um skeptic as i was back in those days before it was a meme i was the rational skeptic before it was uncool um i was saying well you know freedom of speech freedom of speech he should be allowed to wear that uh it said white pride worldwide on it and i said he should be able to wear a white pride shirt because the native uh population is allowed to wear native pride shirts which is not the same thing and um teachers realize that i didn’t realize that and uh yeah so i ended up getting expelled from school he got expelled as well that sort of thing we went to summer school it’s a long story i could go on forever about it but uh later on um when i started growing up a little bit more remember like this is uh i guess 17 16 15 16 right like i’m ju i ju i i just my nuts just [ __ ] dropped right like i still had new car smell so i never [ __ ] seen anything in the world i had like two jobs at like a call center up until this point and i didn’t [ __ ] know anything so um i got out into the world and i i i just started talking to a lot of people you know um i started to uh see uh people in the workforce that were of different ethnicities and different genders and that sort of thing and realized that they were just as smart some of them way smarter than me and uh way more uh thoughtful and uh very wise and all of these things so um i started to just kind of realize that people are all equal and we shouldn’t be segregating people on race and there is no such thing as like white people being like the most amazing people in the world that invented all of the things even back in nazi germany that was a [ __ ] talking point because they had to kind of sweep under the rug all of the italians and brown people from like the the bottom of the [ __ ] continent who did everything before them but you know whatever they did so to invent their own ideology yeah the roman salute it’s like yeah okay um yeah so i i and then i i started to realize that a lot of the things that i was uh thinking was a lot of [ __ ] and you know something that i actually thought of uh more recently um is that i think what draws a lot of people a lot of uh white kids to that sort of ideology uh at the beginning is this like inflated and like mythicized sense of history um that kind of like it all of the symbolism and the uniforms and the ideas and like how this dates back to this thing and all of the like the little trails that you can go down with all of these different like weird obscure facts and like all of that i think a lot of like i would say like nerdy people are like and angry and angry uh males obviously nerdy people and angry males are really interested in getting into these things because i think it feels like it has a lore and i also kind of feel like that’s why like some gamers and other groups like disaffected white kids uh in the middle of suburbia i feel like that’s why it attract it’s attractive to them partly but anyway i’m getting off topic so um so yeah over a course of a long time uh i i slowly slowly slowly was able to finally break my way out of that line of thinking uh and it didn’t just take one argument it didn’t just take one day it took a long very long process of me understanding that all of the things that i had learned up to that point were basically a [ __ ] lie i had to re be re-educated for for lack of a better word um on the entire world right because i i was under this [ __ ] false impression that uh all of these different races and stuff like that needed to uh be segregated and all of these stupid [ __ ] things so yeah so finally after over a decade of learning and and understanding things i finally made my way over to leftism and uh i’ve been there ever since and i met a few and i’ve actually helped to de-radicalize a few uh people who were on that path um who now are some of the most ardent staunch anti-fascists that you have ever seen because it there is something to be said about somebody that gets indoctrinated into something like that when you’re a kid it’s a [ __ ] cult it’s a cult right and when you get out of that when you finally are able to to break free of that tortured way of thinking after at the end of that you are so angry at that whole system for [ __ ] diluting you and confusing you and turning you into a bastard that it makes you want to destroy it and i know so many people who are very very very interested in destroying any [ __ ] thing to do with fascism um because they had to deal with it themselves firsthand right or they seen family members that uh had gone down that path and how it’s destroyed their lives or the family members lives of other people um one thing that i have to say like this is an argument that’s been going on a lot on twitter lately uh about how uh people shouldn’t expect to allow nazis and fascists or ex-nazis and fascists into their spaces because it could be damaging i agree i [ __ ] agree absolutely 100 if you feel like you’re unsafe around somebody who used to believe in those sorts of things that’s totally understandable and i think that you have a right to have a safe uh space for you to grow and change and i also think that people that have been able to understand uh that this sort like understand this sort of line of behavior and who know how to de-radicalize people professionals or people that have physically done this before i i think that those people should be the ones that deal with de-radicalization right but that should never be our main goal as leftists our main goal as leftists should be talking to our neighbors talking to our uh people on the outside world that are closest to us and building community networks locally right and abroad eventually of course um and moving those people right i don’t i don’t think that we should be trying if uh people are poc or people are indigenous or anything like that i don’t think that people that are ex-fascists should be trying to invade their spaces i don’t think that uh and i don’t think that anybody should feel um feel like that that sort of thing could be suspicious or whatever so that’s just my two cents on that yeah and going back to the to the point of like mythologizing history and stuff like that i do feel like there is in particular one guy in canada that is making a career of these things uh um so let’s just jump into that what’s your take on jordan peters oh you’re that’s so funny that you’re saying jordan peterson because i’m like [ __ ] i could think of like five [ __ ] people right now um jordan peterson okay you know jordan peterson is a weird one i think that he uh dog whistles to the fascists and to the nazis a lot um he is also highly highly respected by normies here in canada um like he’s he’s a big deal he’s uh he’s a homegrown sensation and uh even regular people uh and i i say regular people because like most right like most regular people around here are center right um but most regular people they [ __ ] love him uh they love uh um oh what’s that podcaster uh joe rogan they love joe rogan they love uh they love all of those guys even like friends of mine that i’ve been friends with since like high school who i know are like you know center left right more or less like liberal but you know center left they even say that uh people like um uh ben shapiro are uh pretty cool guys i think that in canada um especially in the western part of canada a lot of these right-wing narratives and talking points have really bled into the uh ecosystem and have saturated things so much that it almost uh becomes like the default uh position on a lot of things when you say that you’re a leftist or a liberal especially in the west right people immediately think that you uh just don’t understand things that you’re infantile that you’re a dummy all of these sorts of things and they see people like jordan peterson like ben shapiro uh all of these people um as being rational actors even though they spread conspiracy theories and all kinds of uh loony lunacy and they opened the door up to other more wacky individuals like here in canada there’s this guy named uh kevin j johnson or johnston who’s a complete wackadoo uh and he’s an anti-massacre and uh he signals to the uh to literally nazis all of the time uh endorses people to come carry tiki torches to his rallies and all kinds of things like that and that opens to the door to the sons of vote or soldiers vote and and uh all of the other white nationalist groups so there’s there’s a a perfect um uh radicalization tunnel going directly from basically the mainstream media in uh in canada or you know close to it the talk radio in canada directly straight into uh the hands of a lot of the fascist groups around here and we just don’t have um strong leftist voices uh that are able to grab hold of the media uh the serfs are a big one right they’re they’re a strong leftist voice that is pretty big um funny enough j reg but he’s not really a leftist nobody knows what he is but he at least has some sort of social commentary coming from canada uh but yeah there are there aren’t really those powerful leftist figures uh in canada that can fight against that radicalization pipeline as easily oh and i guess thought slime as well i didn’t even think about that but yeah oh you’ll get there yeah let’s see uh zanzi asked a question chat the national question in canada is complicated there is an issue of canadian socialists wanting to overrule slash subsume or ignore first nation interests how is that solidarity project going oh goodness i i actually uh i zonzi knows more about that than i do apparently because i i honestly haven’t heard much about that um i i know that there have been a lot of indigenous groups that have been fighting for their land and every socialist that i know has been fighting right alongside them uh maybe if he could uh send a little bit more information about that i’d love to read up on it but i i i don’t know much about it i’m sorry yeah well zonzi knows more than most people yeah his all of our brains including all of everybody in the chat could fit inside of his brain yeah i i had him on uh about ireland and i learned so much new information [Laughter] that’s it’s funny that you chose me to talk about canada because i’m so disassociated from canadian politics and like anything going down in canada i’m like i know what’s going on in my local neighborhood and on my block well to be fair though like that’s a little bit of why i chose you because i know that you you are actively engaged in you know practical real-life politics if you want to call it that um [Music] but oh there it wait i rephrased the i i pressed the question of sansi uh wait the answer was informative oh whatever uh um yeah so so i know that you engage with like uh real life action when it comes to these things and and that’s sort of why i i chose you for it because i do think that there is a an inherent value in in practicing politics uh on the sort of ground level that we don’t see too much of from again being online be just talking to youtubers or just being on twitter yeah so yeah i i i agree with that that’s that’s fair so so um your your show reeducation is is that name a reference to your own transformation or you know i never thought about it like that but maybe it is a little bit maybe it’s a little bit of everything because i always look at the show um and i’ve said this in a couple of videos and i think i should say more often i always look at the show as kind of being a gradual uh evolution right it’s it’s always been the the the tagline of the show before it actually uh became all about leftism was actually uh keep evolving um i i used to do like more skeptical stuff and and i would always say at the very end keep evolving right and uh maybe i should bring that back i don’t know but um i i think that that’s really the the aspect of this show is that it’s always been sort of an evolution not just of uh my understanding of things right but the show itself is like me learning things with you as we go so like i said at the beginning i’ll read some books i’ll listen to some podcasts i’ll get a bunch of wacky information in my head and then i’ll go have a shower and i’ll think about it for a little while and then i’ll blurt it out on screen and then i’ll listen to or read all of the comments that i get about it and sometimes now not so much now but definitely at the beginning there was a lot of really interesting thoughts and and comments and stuff like that uh that would inspire different ideas and more videos and that sort of thing um not not saying that i don’t get great comments now it’s just that like i’ve covered so many things now i have like 200 more plus videos that have covered topics so i get a lot of repeats now um but it was always like a learning experience and moving forward so uh yeah i think that that’s that’s fair and also i would say the name re-education uh was always kind of satirical um in that like the whole world the way that we understand it uh is completely flawed we don’t have a really good understanding our education system is broken it teaches us nothing but capitalist propaganda we have to re-educate ourselves so like my goal was to help re-educate uh re help re-educate people so it was kind of that but it was always kind of like a satirical uh sort of play on the re-education camps yeah i was just going to say that like would would you say that your your channel is a bit like a camp in some sorts [Laughter] a little bit like i try to play up the whole motif uh i used to have like communist propaganda in the videos which people get so mad about that i’ve stopped doing it as much um but uh i i always used to try to have all of my uh video titles kind of like very propagandistically written uh i try to have the uh the thumbnails look like propaganda posters um like that’s the the whole idea is like i’m a propagandist trying to give you propaganda that turns out that it’s pretty good it’s it’s it’s good stuff it’s not it’s not bad it’s not scary it’s fine yeah i i remember i i saw a video that washed it on you um or while he he watched like the first 10 seconds of your uh of a video that you had made and then he made an argument for why you understand misunderstood one of his points or whatever um yeah that it was based on the optics of left leftism i guess um you shrank the red flags and all that kind of stuff so would you say that your opinion on that has changed or do you still advocate for like being very front and center with like the iconography uh i don’t remember exactly what my point was in that video because i got harassed so hard from his audience that i ended up deleting that video um like i i made i know i uh yeah funny about that um i made like the world’s most mild criticism about like one obscure thing that he said in one like little bit of a live stream and everybody thought that i was like crucifying the guy like holy [ __ ] like just settle the [ __ ] down um but it like but i i honestly i didn’t think that the criticism i had was like it’s not like i deleted it because they kept [ __ ] bullying me i deleted it because i didn’t strongly stand by what i said and i didn’t want the impression to go get out there to everybody that i hated vosh because of this one thing um uh because i i never have i’ve always had uh problems with fosh right i’ve always had like differences in in understanding i’ve always had political disagreements uh more recently i’ve had like outright like i think that he’s actively doing harmful things by pushing state propaganda and uh by bullying people actively inside of his ch inside of his debates that are like moderately on the left and it made him look bad and any of the things that could have been good that could have came out of that were completely destroyed um but whatever it doesn’t matter um so like yeah i’ve had criticism of him and stuff like that in the past and i think that the whole thing with the optics right was yeah that i think that usually using uh strong imagery strong um ideas strong language that sort of thing draws a certain type of person in right and at the very beginning of what i was doing that type of person was somebody that was kind of like me right who uh sees imagery and sees history and sees interesting uh little things like that and wants to find out a little bit more about it um it’s the same thing that i was talking about with the uh with the gamer uh person or the nerd right but instead of bringing them down a path whether it’s going to lead them to fascist ideology uh it subverts that idea and takes them down a path of hey no listen this is actually a good thing we can actually help people here we can actually come up with uh wonderful new ideas and that sort of thing um so yeah i always think that uh when it comes to um aesthetics that’s what it is when it comes to aesthetics it’s very important it should never be discounted it should never be um understated how important aesthetics are there’s a reason why all throughout history on every single side they’ve always had things like flags like banners like uniforms like uh people all getting together and uh and uh marching in in in groups or working in groups or whatever it is when people see unification when people see everybody working together um first of all if you’re the opposing force that’s scary as [ __ ] and when you’re somebody that uh believes in the same sorts of things as all of these other people seeing those people work together is a natural instinctual thing that people gravitate towards um and uh the symbology and all of that sort of thing behind it is also very important so uh i think that symbols can be used as tools i think that they definitely have been misused in the past if you know anything about uh goebbels and uh all of the uh atrocities done by the nazis they they came up with all kinds of ways to use imagery and aesthetics and that sort of thing to push fascism right so and they were able to convince a large portion of an entire country so yeah so aesthetics are an important tool that we should should be uh using but using um correctly yeah and i i agree with that like i know that some some leftists against streamers or whatever uh they do the whole they’re trying to distance themselves from every form of iconography like uh we can’t use the hammer and sickle because that’s [ __ ] scary to people that have been growing up propagandized by by communism bad and i understand that to some degree which is why i use a little bit different iconography for my stuff but but still like if you know what it is you know it’s left leaning um yeah but but i have heard the sentence uh the nazis were bad but they had cool uniforms quite a lot exactly and so it’s something about the whole i don’t know i’m not a sociologist so i don’t know how to describe it exactly but it’s something about the fact that we we feel uh [Music] whenever something looks orderly i guess uh like the uniforms or the flags or whatever you get some sort of sensation out of that and yeah i’m sure that there’s been science like i’m sure there’s been studies done on it um but yeah you definitely like that’s just a thing that we we all we all know that right it’s just something that we’ve all seen so to say that it’s not a thing is kind of like not looking at like reality i i would say yeah i would still be be a little bit like we need to be careful about exactly what kind of iconography we choose to use though yeah most people are normies most people are not like hardcore into leftism or any ideology for that matter most people just want to live their lives um and if you suddenly start using stalin a lot then that’s not gonna make you look good no exactly and and then you have to explain all of this [ __ ] like i love this little hat that i got at like an antiques roadshow or roadshow sir i had a little antiques mall um and it’s got it’s like a a russian parade hat it’s a it’s actually a policeman’s hat unfortunately which makes me want to burn it but it’s so cool like it’s just a it’s a cool looking thing right and i loved having it inside of my videos i think that it’s a cute little item uh but so many like it’s the only thing really that i had inside of my videos that was like legitimately from the soviet union right like actually communist like iconography the only thing and people so [ __ ] had a problem with this dumb little hat that i i don’t even i don’t put it in my videos anymore i just don’t want to listen to the stupid [ __ ] comments it’s just like okay whatever i’m just gonna put the stupid hat on the stupid shelf and oh and then i put the star in the background nothing but overwhelming uh um uh gratitude right people are so happy about the star because normies don’t know what the [ __ ] it means and all of the anarchists are like how do you get one of those so it’s fine so so you would describe yourself as an anarchist i guess yeah yeah anarcho-communist okay so [Music] so do you feel like and this might be a stupid question i um but do you feel like there’s like a dividing line between just the regular old socialists and anarchists in your community like in your local community like in my local community um yeah uh i i would say that there’s only two real hardcore anarchists and one of them is me um there are a bunch of people that are entering like very anarchist leaning like really on the on the cusp of uh going over that edge um but they’re still normies so they don’t really uh they don’t really [ __ ] with that all that much um and you gotta remember like a lot of the people that i’m dealing with in my local community uh they’re uh center-right conservative guys who are uh construction workers helping to do build stuff um and uh little old ladies little sweet old ladies who bake you cookies and muffins and [ __ ] right so and you’d be surprised how many sweet little ladies that uh listen to me all the time and are like i’m an anarchist [Laughter] yeah like i got like 50 of them on my twitter it’s [ __ ] hilarious um but but yeah so so like yeah so two of us definitely hardcore anarchists um a bunch uh uh like and that’s just in my uh specific like uh little group um then there are a couple who are uh communists and like not really uh specifically branded socialists um a few liberals and uh most are just uh regular old normies and then there’s also the other crew uh that’s in another place i’m not gonna talk about a whole lot um there’s probably 10 or 12 hardcore like straight up anarchists um and a couple that call themselves but they’re also anarcho-communists but they also have like posters of stalin in their [ __ ] or of sorry of lenin in their room so it’s kind of confusing [Laughter] i think and you can correct me if you feel i’m wrong here but i think that lennon has been really lucky with history by the fact that he was succeeded by stalin yeah i feel like love him or hate him i i know that people seem to come around to lenin these days and i’ve read some of his stuff and you know he seemed like a very intelligent man but uh i don’t know as like a statesman uh if he was a very good or bad person i i haven’t read enough up on on like the the glorious days of the ussr but um but like i feel like just by the fact that stalin came along after him and stalin was so bad lennon has sort of been let off the hook for a lot of the [ __ ] that he did so what’s your opinion on lennon are you like more more pro more con what do you think um okay so this is a contentious question as a okay so from what i’ve read from him um um i think that he like i said i he seemed like a very intelligent man and he had a very good grasp on the the uh social unrest around europe and maybe especially in in russia [Music] however i would say that from what i’ve learned and this might be completely bonkers but from what i’ve learned he did commit some atrocities himself and so i would say mixed bag better than stalin maybe not as good as i would like him to be yes does that make sense no that that totally makes sense i mean like i yeah i i i sort of lean towards that same sort of position um i know a little bit about stalin i’ve read a bunch of his books uh i my take on him right is first of all the state in revolution to me reads like the burn book from uh what is that movie called what from mean girls lemon by the way yeah yeah yeah yeah well but um oh did i say stalin yeah oh sorry i meant to say lenin yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry um yeah lennon to me it kind of reads like the burn book from mean girls where he’s just talking about like uh what’s his name kotsuki and like a bunch of other people and talk about how they’re all like wrong and then he gives like the worst possible definition for anarchism and like completely describes it improperly so like basically poisoning the well like there’s a lot to be learned from that book i think that there’s a lot of good things to take out of it um but also i think that it has to be read with like such a bunch of extra knowledge behind it that it it’s not really useful uh to anybody entering into um socialism or anything like that uh without having a bunch of prior knowledge to what he’s talking about and actual real definitions to like actual things like anarchism and that sort of thing um because like i said i think that he really poisoned the well in that uh in that book and uh i think that uh a lot of people say that it was trotsky that handled uh everything that happened with the anarchists uh some people say it was lenin i don’t really care who it was i think that both of those uh individuals and everybody else in the government handled uh the anarchist situation during that time incredibly poorly like overwhelmingly poorly but i would say that essentially what was going on is that lenin was uh maybe started off with good intentions but by the end of it was gunning for power and i think that he felt it was owed to him uh and instead of allowing the workers soviets to actually maintain the power and control of the soviets uh in their local communities and actually run their businesses and do all of the things that they wanted to do um i think that he just basically snatched hold of power by force and uh instituted himself as uh as the uh i don’t want to say as the dictatorship of the proletariat because that you know that doesn’t that doesn’t logically make sense but like he was the he the dictatorship of the proletariat was led by lenin so therefore people couldn’t do things like i don’t know organize unions because how could you organize a union against the dictatorship of the proletariat when you are the proletariat and that sort of thing uh which i think was total [ __ ] as far as his actual leadership qualities go after all of that um some good things some bad uh i think that like yeah yeah some good things some bad uh i think that he did the best that he could uh in the situation that he was in um could i make substantial criticisms of the way he handled certain things absolutely but yeah i guess stalin was worse in some ways i really appreciate the two five-year plans i think that those were really helpful but at the same time they were extremely detrimental to a lot of people in agrarian communities from what i remember so yeah it’s a big [ __ ] mixed bag man yeah let’s say uh sansi the statement revolution is basically all [ __ ] don’t want a revolution stop posing as communists [Laughter] yeah totally uh let’s see uh do you see important sentiment to come out the most important uh sentiment to come out of state and revolution is we are not in the conditions to be able to imagine the society that will bring about communism all we can do is begin the transition and create a society unrecognizable to our own with conditions that allow for the next step um sure that’s her um yeah i think you can learn to be fair to the ussr like i know this is a like a tanky talking point but you know they did bring from being like a european backwater into becoming the second superpower of the world within 20 years so i’ll give them that but they also collapsed so in that sense it’s like yeah i i agree i like i also think that the collapse was partly due to interference from outside uh as well as their own incompetence from inside and like the rampant corruption it takes me back to what i was saying at the very beginning about electoralism right uh you essentially have the exact same problem in electoralism as you do in a centralized um in uh democratic centralism where people that are in power tech uh usually try to hold on to more power uh for example in modern china i can’t remember the exact names of each bureau but i think that they have the pilot bureau politburo something like that uh the or the central committee i can’t remember which one but anyway uh they essentially have like a leadership that’s supposed to be elected by a group of people that are below by and that are elected by a group of people below and so forth and so on but since they’ve already created this power structure that essentially works from the top down it works to be incestuous and the people that get nominated into places or elected into places heavy scare quotes are usually just elected into those places rubber stamp style and usually are actually vetted by the elders that have been there for a long time which is exactly the same thing as the united states senate right you can’t usually just get in there if you aren’t known by most of the other politicians or you haven’t donated to the right [ __ ] donors or you haven’t kissed the right rings or boots or whatever um so yeah i i would say that so long as we don’t eliminate uh the primary contradiction of the uh ruler versus the ruled or the owner versus the owned or whatever then we’re all and if we just abstract that and put it towards a different body then we’re always going to have the exact same problems so we have to tackle both uh the abolishment of capitalism as well as uh restructuring the hierarchy so we don’t have this [ __ ] happen again that’s my take yeah i can’t really find any objectional uh objectionable ideas there now to be fair i’m not a hundred percent sold on anarchism um [Music] i don’t know i maybe i just haven’t read enough that that might very well be the the case um but you know i to give a little bit of background uh i grew up as a social democrat and i like i’ve been hardcore into the belief of social democracy for the majority of my life and so maybe that has colored me into the way that i see the utility of a state in some degree at least now you know the the ultimate goal is to get rid of the state at some point but for the time being i i at least see it as a a um necessary evil um and that it doesn’t necessarily have to be like purely a bad thing there that like that’s an understandable position to take um what about the state is it that you uh think is necessary um okay so so let um let’s remember that we’re working within a capitalist system and so a socialist world would look very different of course but what i think a state is necessary for is for example the regulation of the the different markets that we have to that we have in society as society is today and the protections for you know as long as the state does its job properly then it would be protections for poor and disadvantaged people um norway is fairly okay with that not the last couple years because we’ve had a right-wing government but that’s in here nor there and also it it can basically put a chokehold on [Music] companies that want to exploit the planet and the their workers so that that’s like the basic fundamentals of why i see a state as at least necessary for the time being sure and i totally agree with every single one of those points um so long as you’re going through some kind of transitionary period if that’s where we’re going to go you’re going to need to have some sort of apparatus in place to make sure that there’s checks and balances to make sure that certain industries don’t uh abuse child labor laws and to make sure that people are getting paid a fair wage and that sort of thing until eventually you’re able to completely um eradicate money and that sort of thing uh my question is do you think that we could do that fully democratically uh without having specifically politicians do it now we’re getting into the the hard questions i see [Music] i i guess my only issue is that a lot of people are very ignorant on the things that they are not invested in personally sure um so for example i don’t know enough about let’s say the details of the healthcare industry in norway like from the workers perspectives i don’t know enough about how the nurses are getting paid or how much they were i i know that it’s not good enough because they are always lacking people in that sector but the fact that i am probably more than um more informed than the average person in the street and yet still i don’t know if i know enough to cast votes on these things um that makes it a little bit scary to me i guess sir no then that’s a totally understandable fear to have um would you agree that the nurses probably know a lot more about uh all of the plight that they have uh better than you would oh yeah 100 sure so then uh why not this um instead of having a politician decide what happens uh to the nurses right if they get paid more or if your health care uh is redone in a certain way instead of that happening why wouldn’t we prioritize the nurses vote as being the most important right and have them vote on policy changes and then everybody else after that could have a lesser vote that would also be taken into consideration uh when making those sorts of uh changes uh sure i just don’t necessarily know how that would be practically done like if let’s say that there are 10 000 nurses just to say a number and then you have like a hundred thousand people that aren’t nurses and then the ten thousand nurses vote for one thing and then the hundred thousand people vote for a different thing like at that point will the hundred thousand [Music] people win over the nurses and then knock down you see my problems right yeah yeah yeah no totally um so essentially uh what this is what i’m talking about is uh something called vote weighing right so it works with any kind of industry and it could work with nurses it could also work with building bridges um and i’ll use um oh yeah i guess can i i’ll use the nurse’s example uh as uh kind of like a baseline right so uh say we’re
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What is Socialism in Canada? pt.1 (ft. Aaron from Re-education)

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